anti skating

snap, crackle and pop
Patrick bro
junior member
junior member
Posts: 16
Joined: 04 Sep 2018 07:51

anti skating

Post by Patrick bro » 05 Sep 2018 03:55

What do you guys use to set your anti skating? i heard a cd works but it doesn't for mine. Do you use a blank record or a one sided? If so whats is a good one sided record?

oldschool1955
member
member
Posts: 40
Joined: 09 Jan 2016 19:39
Location: Massachusetts

Re: anti skating

Post by oldschool1955 » 05 Sep 2018 04:08

I used the blank side 4 of Johnny Winter "Second Winter" LP to set the level on my Technics SL-1210GR and then fine tuned it by ear. The blank record method was pretty accurate god me. Ended up with the antiskate slighty higher than the VTA value.

Ghaasl
senior member
senior member
United States of America
Posts: 320
Joined: 02 Jul 2017 22:20
Location: Becker, Minnesota.

Re: anti skating

Post by Ghaasl » 05 Sep 2018 04:37

I use my ears. Headphones are ideal, but not necessary. I put a monoarual record on the turntable with the antiskate set to the VTF of the cartridge. Then, I form an imaginary equal lateral triangle between the speakers and me. I close my eyes and listen. Of the music is directly in front of you, you’re all set. Is the music favors one side or the other, adjust accordingly and listen again from the “triangle” spot.

kcsaboo
member
member
Posts: 31
Joined: 26 Dec 2016 18:56
Location: Netherlands

Re: anti skating

Post by kcsaboo » 05 Sep 2018 08:17

Have you considered buying something like the HiFi News test LP?
It has test tracks to Help you determine whether your anti-skate is correctly set.

Good luck!

Patrick bro
junior member
junior member
Posts: 16
Joined: 04 Sep 2018 07:51

Re: anti skating

Post by Patrick bro » 05 Sep 2018 09:33

never heard of it
Last edited by Patrick bro on 05 Sep 2018 09:48, edited 1 time in total.

kcsaboo
member
member
Posts: 31
Joined: 26 Dec 2016 18:56
Location: Netherlands

Re: anti skating

Post by kcsaboo » 05 Sep 2018 09:38

https://www.musicdirect.com/analog-acce ... ducers-cut

There is a lengthy description here that explains it in more detail.

tlscapital
long player
long player
Belgium
Posts: 1426
Joined: 27 Sep 2015 14:27
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Re: anti skating

Post by tlscapital » 05 Sep 2018 13:56

Patrick bro wrote:What do you guys use to set your anti skating? i heard a cd works but it doesn't for mine. Do you use a blank record or a one sided? If so whats is a good one sided record?
Evidently that can't work. A flat surface won't induce any bias force like in a record groove. Maybe it can Help one set the "anti-skate" force set at '0'. But that is not the aim of the anti-skate device and setting.

The bias 'inward' force is induce by the stylus in the groove while the record is revolving mainly by the groove "dents" friction. Naturally stronger on the longer "outer" groove and decreasing toward the end.

Evidently any anti-skate mechanism and setting is approximative. Some use a MONO record and sit in between the speakers to adjust by ear. You also have those specific records as presented here before.

To set and adjust I use the eye from time to time to see if when facing the cantilever it still sits at 90° in the groove while playing. And finally when I do a recording I check both channels separation output volume.

Those with a bias counter weight hanging on a fish net and who can also adjust the axis angle of the 'pole' regarding the tonearm pivot; it's anti-skate force is stronger at 90° of the tonearm pivot to stylus "angle".

vinylrayk
member
member
Posts: 227
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 18:07
Location: Traverse City, MI

Re: anti skating

Post by vinylrayk » 05 Sep 2018 22:01


Patrick bro
junior member
junior member
Posts: 16
Joined: 04 Sep 2018 07:51

Re: anti skating

Post by Patrick bro » 06 Sep 2018 00:47

okay so i found a one sided record it still has lines on but its every mm. Its not the grooves with music on it. Will this still work? or does it have to be completely blank?

nat
long player
long player
Posts: 3667
Joined: 07 Nov 2002 20:05

Re: anti skating

Post by nat » 06 Sep 2018 01:39

Even a flat record will create skating force, because there is friction between the stylus tip and the vinyl and the offset angle of the arm drags the arm inward. It is presumably (and I use that modifier deliberately) less friction, thus less force than that that would be created by a modulated groove. But a blank record will give you a starting point, and, even if you do nothing more than balance out the unmodulated amount of inward force, it's better than nothing.
A blank groove would give more indication of the friction the grooves create, but it doesn't provide a visual indication of the amount of skating, since the stylus remains in the groove. A kludge method is to use the space between the run out grooves in the section next to the label - it'll give a quick idea of what is happening, but the needle will run into the groove (either inward or outward) so quickly that it is hard to get the right amount of antiskating.

ChrisfromRI
member
member
United States of America
Posts: 206
Joined: 13 May 2004 04:17
Location: New England

Re: anti skating

Post by ChrisfromRI » 06 Sep 2018 04:02

Maybe it would Help if I were to explain the way I have learned to set anti-skating force. There is a scale on the adjustment but we really have no idea what math went into creating that scale, other than the manufacturer's thought that a setting on the scale corresponding with the tracking force you're using would be reasonable. Given age and wear on the spring that applies this force, if it's a spring applied anti-skating force we don't really know how the scale corresponds today to what was originally intended.

We do know what our tracking force is set to, and that is because we measure it with an external scale we know is accurate. We also know that the two main variables affecting how much anti-skating force is needed for the cartidge we are using are the tracking force and the amount of groove modulation applied to the stylus. More anti-skating force is needed for heavy groove modulation than for light groove modulation. Accordingly we know that we will never be setting the anti-skating force to the "perfect" amount because when we play records the music is dynamic and there is variation from high groove modulation to low groove modulation, so the best we can hope for is a compromise setting for the medium groove modulation level of a large percentage of the music being played - understanding that sometimes it will be set a little too high and sometimes a little too low.

OK then, there are many test records available with slowly increasing groove modulation of recorded tones. The goal when playing these tones is for neither speaker channel to distort at all, all the way through this test track, but that is generally impossible, so one channel will usually audibly distort before the other channel will. Applying more or less anti-skating force will get them to both start distorting at the same time, at the maximum groove modulation that the cartridge can track.

If the left channel distorts first try reducing the anti-skating force, and if the right distorts first try increasing the anti-skating force. Assuming you have done this carefully then you will have carefully optimized the anti-skating force adjustment for one condition and one condition only, the absolute maximum groove modulation that your cartridge can successfully track. Look at the anti-skating force scale now and see what it says compared to your tracking force! Make a note of that setting. What I do is then make the assumption that the point that the dial or weight is adjusted to is the perfect point for that tracking force at maximum groove modulation. I then assume that from zero to that point the anti-skating scale is reasonably linear and I back the adjustment off to one half of that maximum setting knowing that very little music will be at maximum groove modulation, and most music will be more in the middle. This method has served me well for a long time. Again this is a compromise setting that will never be perfect, but this method usually allows it to be pretty close most of the time.

PAR
member
member
Posts: 32
Joined: 13 Mar 2008 23:05
Location: London, England

Re: anti skating

Post by PAR » 06 Sep 2018 12:53

Patrick bro wrote:What do you guys use to set your anti skating? i heard a cd works but it doesn't for mine. Do you use a blank record or a one sided? If so whats is a good one sided record?
I have posted several times that you cannot set anti-skate properly using a blank disc. I am not going to repeat the reasons why here as you can search on my moniker and should find a post from me on this topic from only a few weeks ago.

Patrick bro
junior member
junior member
Posts: 16
Joined: 04 Sep 2018 07:51

Re: anti skating

Post by Patrick bro » 06 Sep 2018 19:45

PAR wrote:
Patrick bro wrote:What do you guys use to set your anti skating? i heard a cd works but it doesn't for mine. Do you use a blank record or a one sided? If so whats is a good one sided record?
I have posted several times that you cannot set anti-skate properly using a blank disc. I am not going to repeat the reasons why here as you can search on my moniker and should find a post from me on this topic from only a few weeks ago.
I thought your supposed to use the blank record to look for the tonearm pulling inward and pulling outward?

WanderingAlbatross
member
member
Posts: 61
Joined: 06 Sep 2018 18:16

Re: anti skating

Post by WanderingAlbatross » 06 Sep 2018 21:19

I have been using the blank record (roughly speaking), and while having very sharp hearing is better, I'm pretty sure that putting the stylus on a blank surface and trying to balance it is better than nothing. I just found that a track that used to skip is no longer skipping. :)

Spinner45
long player
long player
United States of America
Posts: 2031
Joined: 01 Mar 2017 18:21

Re: anti skating

Post by Spinner45 » 06 Sep 2018 22:25

Patrick bro wrote:
PAR wrote:
Patrick bro wrote:What do you guys use to set your anti skating? i heard a cd works but it doesn't for mine. Do you use a blank record or a one sided? If so whats is a good one sided record?
I have posted several times that you cannot set anti-skate properly using a blank disc. I am not going to repeat the reasons why here as you can search on my moniker and should find a post from me on this topic from only a few weeks ago.
I thought your supposed to use the blank record to look for the tonearm pulling inward and pulling outward?
A SLOW outward "pull" on a blank disk is close enough.
The manufacturers knew how to set their adjustments and calibrated the antiskate dial accordingly.

I don't see why people are so defiant towards things, and think the manufacturer doesn't know what their doing.

Post Reply