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CJ Walker CJ 55 running slow--Update Help please

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CJ Walker CJ 55 running slow--Update Help please

Postby theclosetguy » 26 May 2018 16:22

Hi All
A year ago I posted that this TT was running at 31.5 and 43 rpm. Belts did not Help.
I opened it up last week to check out the motor and it's associated components.
The Motor itself is a 60HZ 120 Volt. Its wired to a small Buss strip. the 120 Volt power cord run to the buss strip as well as one leg to the power button. Across the terminals of the buss strip are 3 .001 value orange drop caps and 1- .047 foil cap. The 3 .001 are in spec, the .047 was reading .053 so I changed it out to one reading .047. The Sub platter had a small build up of gunk where the belt ran so I cleaned that up. The Motor Pulley was riding really low so I raised that. I cleaned out the bearing Well and replace the oil. I put a few drops of oil on the motor bearings. I Played around with 3 different belts.
The Best I can get now is 32.7 and 44 rpms.
Any suggestions?
Thank you
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Re: CJ Walker CJ 55 running slow--Update Help please

Postby nat » 27 May 2018 23:20

Can you hear that it is slow? Most people don't have perfect pitch, and, for that matter, not all records are cut at exactly the correct speed. So benefits of exact speed, or even the possibility of achieving it, may be somewhat theoretical. I would imagine anyone who has perfect pitch would probably want a Direct Drive, or at least a belt drive with variable speed, but, given that you have the table you have, unless you can get one of those external variable AC power sources, you may be stuck. So the question is, if your eyes didn't tell you it was slow, would you know? And would you actually care?
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Re: CJ Walker CJ 55 running slow--Update Help please

Postby theclosetguy » 28 May 2018 15:56

Hi Nat
I use this TT as a Mono Table
At 31.5, yes one can definitely hear it running slow. At 32.5 it is audible when you do a A-B comparison between a Stereo and Mono Recording. At First I thought the Stereo TT was running fast, but it's spot on at 33.3.
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Re: CJ Walker CJ 55 running slow--Update Help please

Postby GTS Dean » 02 Jun 2018 17:09

Wow - what a timely subject! I'm just stepping back into my audio system after raising 4 kids thru college. I have a CJ Walker 55 turntable with Linn LV-X tonearm that I've had since the early 80's. A new belt, fresh spindle oil and a light cleanup has not rectified an age-old problem with slow pitch - around -3.2%. The motor never has started the platter by itself and requires a little swipe to overcome inertia. In fact, it will not even start itself with the belt disconnected.

Is the motor in need of replacement? Or, should I chuck the sub platter up in a lathe and lightly decrease the OD to get the mechanical ratio correct for the motor?
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Re: CJ Walker CJ 55 running slow--Update Help please

Postby Coffee Phil » 03 Jun 2018 17:06

There isn't much on this turntable in the library. I was able to find that it is belt drive and has a 16 pole synchronous motor. Flat belt, square belt, round belt I don't know.

A 16 pole motor turns at 450 RPM on 60 Hz. First I would verify the motor speed. Here is a low cost device which will do that: https://www.amazon.com/AGPtek%C2%AE-Professional-Digital-Tachometer-Contact/dp/B004Q8L894/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1528040987&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=optical+tachometer&psc=1

Thicker belts make the platter spin faster, however that effect is more pronounced with higher speed motors with their very small capstans.

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Re: CJ Walker CJ 55 running slow--Update Help please

Postby GTS Dean » 03 Jun 2018 19:03

It's a flat belt, 3/16" x .03", and is less than a year old. After reading a number of other posts here, many point to dried lubricant in the motor bushings. What's the best solvent to clean them with - isopropyl? What type of oil is recommended? I have a pocket sized precision pin oiler bottle from Chevron.
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Re: CJ Walker CJ 55 running slow--Update Help please

Postby Coffee Phil » 03 Jun 2018 22:01

Hi GTS Dean,

0.03” is fairly standard and I don’t know if you can get much thicker. Since your motor seems short of torque a thicker belt may hurt.

Lighter fluid or lacquer thinners, but use them outside as they are toxic and flamable. Sewing machine oil is good. The motor should spin very freely.

Do get the optical tach to see where you are at. Also check the phase shift capacitor.

Phil
GTS Dean wrote:It's a flat belt, 3/16" x .03", and is less than a year old. After reading a number of other posts here, many point to dried lubricant in the motor bushings. What's the best solvent to clean them with - isopropyl? What type of oil is recommended? I have a pocket sized precision pin oiler bottle from Chevron.
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Re: CJ Walker CJ 55 running slow--Update Help please

Postby theclosetguy » 04 Jun 2018 01:43

I quit.
I start this post and Coffee Phil completely ignores my follow up posts to answer someone else.
Thanks.
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Re: CJ Walker CJ 55 running slow--Update Help please

Postby Copperhead » 04 Jun 2018 02:12

theclosetguy wrote:I quit. Mike M


You are not really going to quit after all the time you put into it, might as well persevere.

Seeing as the motor is an AC synchronous, it should not slow down unless the voltage dropped or some mechanical drag impeded it. Could it be that there is some play in the motor's bearings and the spindle is contacting the side too much? Is the speed constant, albeit slow, and are you sure someone before you hasn't sanded the pulley?

I would try checking the motor's bearings, maybe clean a relube with thinner oil, or if there's play try a thicker one. If that fails I would try getting a new motor, a Premotec might work depending on the spindle's diameter. It would need to accept the old pulley.
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Re: CJ Walker CJ 55 running slow--Update Help please

Postby Coffee Phil » 04 Jun 2018 06:24

Hey Closet Guy,

I think you are getting a bit offensive. I answer the posts with info which could be useful to you and you get your nose out of joint. Why did I even bother? Well it likely won't be for you in the future.

Phil


theclosetguy wrote:I quit.
I start this post and Coffee Phil completely ignores my follow up posts to answer someone else.
Thanks.
Mike M
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Re: CJ Walker CJ 55 running slow--Update Help please

Postby abril » 04 Jun 2018 11:36

C'os the problems with synchronous motor systems are fundamentally the same,so answering anyone with basically the same problem will give the same answers :!:
Belt slip,pulley slip,belt thickness-too slow=too thin,failing phasing cap,failing motor coils,bad wiring connection,old gunky oil,missing bearing ball (where the bearing has a separate ball).
That's about it :!:
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Re: CJ Walker CJ 55 running slow--Update Help please

Postby whitenoise » 07 Jun 2018 16:31

I have the CJ 61, I would defiantly give the spindle housing a good clean and make sure the bearing in the bottom can move about once clean, use a small amount of fine oil, just enough to cover the bearing up to around half its size above it. If it has the band attaching the wood that the spindle housing sits on to the main body I would be tempted to remove it, I removed mine with and found levelling the table no more tricky than with it on.
You probably know already but try to get the table as level as possible...I also found that using 4x small wedges placed at 12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock Help with levelling.

Hope this helps somewhat.
Rich.
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Re: CJ Walker CJ 55 running slow--Update Help please

Postby whitenoise » 07 Jun 2018 16:38

Definitely not defiantly lol ....
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Re: CJ Walker CJ 55 running slow--Update Help please

Postby GTS Dean » 07 Jul 2018 04:46

CJ Walker motor 1.jpg
OK, I'm back. I've been getting some minor power supply issues with my SX-980 fixed, recapped my old Bose 601-1 crossovers and put new suspension on the 8" drivers.

I pulled the motor out of the turntable to try flushing it, but it is a completely sealed 50Hz motor from Switzerland. I was able to get a few drops of oil on both ends of the shaft and reinstalled. I also cleaned and lubed the platter spindle shaft, bushing and well. Went through the tonearm balance and cartridge alignment routines and leveled the table.

I pulled three albums out for trial - some Supertramp, E.J. Tumbleweed Connection and Spiro Gyra were chosen for great mastering, some sustained woodwinds and piano notes. It appears the mechanical detailing has gotten the platter speed within 2-3 seconds of label track duration and I'd call that good. However - there remains just a tad of audible flutter. Here's a photo of the electrics. Can anyone ID the 3 yellow and tan components? What are they, and would replacing them reduce the flutter, or is it likely motor-related?
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Re: CJ Walker CJ 55 running slow--Update Help please

Postby GTS Dean » 11 Jul 2018 18:50

theclosetguy wrote:Hi All
A year ago I posted that this TT was running at 31.5 and 43 rpm. Belts did not Help.
I opened it up last week to check out the motor and it's associated components.
The Motor itself is a 60HZ 120 Volt. Its wired to a small Buss strip. the 120 Volt power cord run to the buss strip as well as one leg to the power button. Across the terminals of the buss strip are 3 .001 value orange drop caps and 1- .047 foil cap. The 3 .001 are in spec, the .047 was reading .053 so I changed it out to one reading .047. The Sub platter had a small build up of gunk where the belt ran so I cleaned that up. The Motor Pulley was riding really low so I raised that. I cleaned out the bearing Well and replace the oil. I put a few drops of oil on the motor bearings. I Played around with 3 different belts.
The Best I can get now is 32.7 and 44 rpms.
Any suggestions?
Thank you


Your motor is different than mine at 60Hz/120v, and you apparently have an extra capacitor that mine doesn't. Are you certain that you read it correctly? I got my digital speed meter yesterday and mine is now running at between 33.1 and 33.2 rpm, but as I said above, it has some flutter. I guess I'll check into replacing the caps and see how it responds.

I did notice that the platter is very sensitive to the jack screw adjustment. Setting the clearance to the factory height (high) makes the subchassis unusually sensitive to floor vibrations. Too low and the platter begins to drag on the plinth top.
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