45 RPM Stereo groove

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goatbreath
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45 RPM Stereo groove

Post by goatbreath » 26 May 2018 12:17

Does anybody know when they stopped using a Mono groove and changed over to a Stereo one on 45 RPM singles.

tlscapital
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Re: 45 RPM Stereo groove

Post by tlscapital » 26 May 2018 14:14

Huh !? In the USA some 7" singles revolving at 45 rpm with STEREO written on the label started to become frequent but not necessarily standard by 1970 for major companies like Mercury, United Artists and Columbia come to mind. King records made some odd "STEREO" credited 45's by mid 1959 with the voices on one channel and the instruments on the other... Karaoke records ?!

In the USA I would believe that the first standardized STEREO 45's cut where the double 'A' sided promo copies with one side STEREO and the other MONO by early 1969 for the Mercury Group. This was done with the most logical approach to it since STEREO and MONO cohabitation was still very strong amongst the DJ's set-ups. Even though I dislike these press since they don't have a 'B' side.

To say there was a day when all the companies switched to a standardized STEREO groove for all the 45's pressed in the world... it's not something that I pay too much attention to since I play my singles regardless with my Denon DL-102 MONO (stereo compatible) cartridge. Sorry if I could not be of better Help but like most process, I guess it took some time before it became the standard.

Doug G.
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Re: 45 RPM Stereo groove

Post by Doug G. » 26 May 2018 19:58

The Doors 45's (Elektra) were stereo in early 1968.

Those were about the only ones, at the time, to stay consistently stereo because some record companies, who had released some stereo 45s, returned to mono for a bit as the radio stations were having a hard time broadcasting stereo 45s with their mono boards, often resulting in only one channel being broadcaast with the resulting missing material. I remember hearing some of those, "Hey, no rhythm guitar! No drums!"

Doug

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Re: 45 RPM Stereo groove

Post by tlscapital » 27 May 2018 14:47

Doug G. wrote:The Doors 45's (Elektra) were stereo in early 1968.

Those were about the only ones, at the time, to stay consistently stereo because some record companies, who had released some stereo 45s, returned to mono for a bit as the radio stations were having a hard time broadcasting stereo 45s with their mono boards, often resulting in only one channel being broadcaast with the resulting missing material. I remember hearing some of those, "Hey, no rhythm guitar! No drums!"

Doug
STEREO also playable on mono phonographs or those STEREO/MONO compatible records compromise were the witness of the transition from lateral to vertical cartridge compliance read of the record groove. And the professionals as Joe Public where still equipped with MONO gear then.

Since most of the MONO cartridges do damage the STEREO record groove, this compatibility carving is allowing a lateral compliance in this "special" STEREO carved groove without severe wear. More than a sonic improvement it was a "safety" issue at stake.

So a MONO cartridge reading a STEREO record groove is not actually missing a channel but misreading the record groove. Just as a STEREO cartridge will not read the MONO record groove correctly and pick up a lot of pollution and distortion.

STEREO does not mean more channels, as in the idea that MONO would be one less channel, but it is a different master job, groove cut and cartridge read. MONO implies a lateral compliance cartridge read of the groove where STEREO is a vertical one and the groove cut is done accordingly.
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Doug G.
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Re: 45 RPM Stereo groove

Post by Doug G. » 28 May 2018 03:38

I am well aware of all that. I am referencing many radio station playback equipment at the time which did not allow folding both channels into one for broadcast. Of course, it didn't take them long to put both channels together out of a turntable but, at first, they would play a stereo 45 on a stereo turntable, because they didn't want to damage the stereo record with a lateral compliance only cartridge, and only one channel would be broadcast.

Of course, this was over a very short period of time and they had it straightened out quickly.

Doug

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Re: 45 RPM Stereo groove

Post by Spinner45 » 28 May 2018 05:25

Stereo 45's first appeared around 1959-1960, mainly for the new "stereophonic" jukeboxes that were coming out.
Stereo LP records themselves came out in 1958.
A good part of it was for marketing purposes - people hearing the neat left-right sonics would be prone to buying or upgrading their home systems.
And manufacturers love that boost in sales ya know.

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Re: 45 RPM Stereo groove

Post by goatbreath » 28 May 2018 22:19

I more asked this question while evaluating about Styli..

I was more wondering how many of my singles are likely to be Mono..
Many Decca Phase 4 Stereo seem to sound better with a conical stylus..

M75 ED vs M75 6s

Lighter tracking elliptical vs a bit heavier tracking conical..

I know most people would automatically choose the M75 ED because of the elliptical stylus..

Recently got my Dual 1226 partly for Autochange Duties..Ihave more than one turntable.
I am swapping between the Two Styli above..Both Old Style Japanese EVG..

The M75 6s seems to track a bit better because of downforce,not hugely so though..
Also the actual tone of the instruments sounds a bit more real..
It is also a touched more relaxed sounding..

The M75ED 2 stylus is more detailed,more definition of note pitch in the bass..
More details in the Cymbals etc..More forwards can get a little aggressive on trumpet though..

They both really do have their merits

I am evaluating how may of my singles are mono..
I have an original copy of Day tripper by the Beatles..
It sounds pretty good with the M75 ED needle..

Only 1 really tightly warped record throws the M75 ed out of the Groove on the Dual..
The M75 6s being lower compliance does not get flustered..

The M75 ED seems to sound best around 1.65 on the Dual Arm.
The M75 6s A bit over 2.8 grams..

tlscapital
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Re: 45 RPM Stereo groove

Post by tlscapital » 29 May 2018 15:50

Being MONO maniac, I happen to have only ONE cartridge, ONE phono set-up as described in my signature. With TWO speakers that is mind you. So I can only be partial on the matter. Admitting never to turn back to anything else on top of it all.

Started collecting as a teen with my bare pocket money, I now have a fair bunch of nice rare or simply good records gathered through the decades of crate digging and master plan engineering on sales and trades to fund my finds.

Mostly vintage 45's they are, I have also a decent amount of LP's and 12" extended singles of the same "rare" American soul music from the sixties and seventies, witnessing the switch from MONO to STEREO.

Late in my music life, I made a giant step in phono gear and got oriented toward what would be my first and last to this day MONO (stereo compatible) cartridge; the DENON DL-102 designed for carefree playback of any MONO and/or STEREO records.

Not bad nor great, this Denon DL-102 is not a "high-end" audiophile contender. Yet it splendously benefits my records as it suits humble me. And it fits my tonearm even more so since the tweaks, conversions and improvement I did both in sounds and esthetics.

Designed in 1962 for carefree air-play of both MONO and STEREO records with enough resilience as essence extraction of any kind of groove, when properly set it yet achieves to retrieve enough details in balance respect.

Continued since, this MC high output with a large 0.7 nude conical diamond on a low-low compliant "sprung" cantilever really enjoys a lot of lateral inertia on an ultra heavy mass tonearm with the tracking set at 3G, it's a classic of the genre.

Even though it's the only comparison I have as far as a MONO cartridge goes, I must say that this MONO cartridge instantly favored my MONO records groove ! The large conical diamond must be at stake somewhere to answer your question...

When I play my records, off course I can listen to my gear sound in definition on low volume but, my aim is definitely to play them mindless of such attention to retrieve music out of the groove to only enjoy the music from my records loud and in harmony.

So if the conical tip is not as detailed as some other tip cut, I find it detailed enough for my MONO and STEREO records where it's all to do with music rendition; musically. And for old thick groove retrieval, it's more than good enough fa meh :D

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