Help : Teac Magnefloat TS-80 - Rare Beauty

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spot245
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Help : Teac Magnefloat TS-80 - Rare Beauty

Post by spot245 » 19 Feb 2018 01:50

I have an unusual problem with an unusual turntable , wondering if anyone has any ideas. :?
It's a beautiful unit ,seems very rare , very well built with a beautiful tonearm & exceptional bearing ,so I'm persisting with restoring it with original parts intact.
Teac Magnefloat TS-80 , arm is a Grace can't remember model at the moment...
http://audio-heritage.jp/TEAC-ESOTERIC/ ... ts-85.html
https://www.olx.bg/ad/prodavam-visokoka ... 5VuX0.html

Problem is basically speed ....
When i first tried it there was a lot of vibration & resulting noise from the motor and was running slow.
First issue was the usual rotten rubber motor supports, motor had collapsed & spindle was way too low - found some suitable replacement rubbers & fitted them no problem, now sitting at correct height.
tried some oil in the bearings & got the same slow speed - no change
tested the power (as it is 100v on rear of unit) & found power was a bit under approx 96volts.
someone has resolved the power issue (240volt Australia) by "fitting" in some old 100 volt transformer that was presumably liberated from something else ?
fortunately nothing was damaged in the process of butchery so i removed it and ran a standard 110volt step down transformer
I thought the step up in power to 110v would speed up the motor but it remained at the same slow speed - no change
ended up removing the motor & investigating further ... discovering an adjustable grub screw/ lock nut at the base.
there was a small indent at the motor pivot point & i figured it was the right shape for a ball .. apparently missing.
I found a ball bearing the right size & replaced / adjusted it.
the motor now runs silently & perfectly balanced and quiet...
but still ran at the same slow speed - no change
tried different belts and have adjusted (it has adjustable motor supports) to increase & decrease tension but...
still ran at the same slow speed - no change
finally tried switching to 60Hz (even though we have 50Hz) and this made the motor run a bit faster although still not quite enough.
it is an asynchronous motor , looks very well made & is running perfectly it seems just not at the right speed.
I'm out of ideas & Hoping someone can assist before i resort to changing the motor.

Thanks from downunder Australia :D

Japi Roelofs
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Re: Help : Teac Magnefloat TS-80 - Rare Beauty

Post by Japi Roelofs » 19 Feb 2018 11:23

I worked on a friend's TS-85 a couple of years ago, and consequently sold it for him. I believe the difference with the TS-80 is that the TS-85 has a Fidelity Research tonearm.

It came with an auxiliary 60Hz motor pulley. This is also described in the manual: "The extra motor pulley will be mounted under the control cover plate. The pulley for 50Hz will have a green top, the pulley for 60Hz is brass colored".

Maybe you already checked this?

spot245
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Re: Help : Teac Magnefloat TS-80 - Rare Beauty

Post by spot245 » 20 Feb 2018 01:45

Thanks Japi,
Yes it has the 50Hz (green) pulley fitted.
The alternate 60Hz is still present if needed - attached to central support bracket (under the control cover plate).
It looks to be a smaller diameter which i figure will result in slowing down the platter ...so i haven't tried it.
Here is a photo - is it the same as ts-85 ?

can't work out how to load a photo #-o

Japi Roelofs
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Re: Help : Teac Magnefloat TS-80 - Rare Beauty

Post by Japi Roelofs » 20 Feb 2018 13:45

spot245 wrote:can't work out how to load a photo #-o
Click on "Post Reply" (or click on "Quick Reply", then on "Full Editor").

You will see this:
VE upload attachement.JPG
(18.61 KiB) Downloaded 531 times
Click on "Upload attachment"

Now you can browse in your computer. Make sure the file is smaller than 1 MB.

spot245
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Re: Help : Teac Magnefloat TS-80 - Rare Beauty

Post by spot245 » 01 Mar 2018 04:01

Ok thanks :-)
Here's the motor
118.jpg
(266.94 KiB) Downloaded 503 times

Voltman99
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Re: Help : Teac Magnefloat TS-80 - Rare Beauty

Post by Voltman99 » 15 May 2018 04:45

Hi, just curious if you ever got your speed issue worked out?

spot245
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Re: Help : Teac Magnefloat TS-80 - Rare Beauty

Post by spot245 » 16 May 2018 02:36

Sadly ...No
It's still waiting on the sideline while i'm working on other jobs / projects.
I've found another similar motor that is 240v also some brackets and mounting rubbers , should be able to fit it & fix it soon....

spot245
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Re: Help : Teac Magnefloat TS-80 - Rare Beauty

Post by spot245 » 28 May 2018 05:35

Wondering if someone can Help me work out the wiring for this :?
I started messing around with brackets & found a possible solution to the speed issue...so i'll have another try at fixing the original.
I can't get the motor to run separate from the turntable ?
4 wires red, orange,grey and purple.
orange & grey join together at power in , purple and red exit at different points depending on 50/60hz switch.
I guessed it would run at 50hz on red and 60hz on purple.
but i can't find any combination of connections (direct to ac plug) that will run the motor ??
so the 3 capacitors seem necessary in some way ??
I'm guessing that due to their age , some replacements might resolve the speed being slow ??
would anyone have an idea of how this is connected and runs in conjunction with the capacitors ?
or...should i just try to replace them with similar value caps in same wiring config ?
I assumed it was an asynchronous motor ...have no idea of manufacturer or any info :?
Attachments
ts-80 wiring.jpg
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Spinner45
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Re: Help : Teac Magnefloat TS-80 - Rare Beauty

Post by Spinner45 » 28 May 2018 07:08

That is a capacitor-run induction motor, also used on the Teac reel-to-reel decks.
Those capacitors are critical for operation.
If faulty, they must be replaced with the same values.

Thunderbox
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Re: Help : Teac Magnefloat TS-80 - Rare Beauty

Post by Thunderbox » 28 May 2018 07:42

You say it's running slow but you haven't told us what speed it's running at. Would be nice if anyone is to Help.

spot245
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Re: Help : Teac Magnefloat TS-80 - Rare Beauty

Post by spot245 » 29 May 2018 02:43

Thanks Spinner :D
i've never heard of a capacitor-run induction motor...will have to do some research,
but it seems that i should replace the caps & see if it works...that's about the only option left apart from replacing the motor.

Thunderbox,
i don't know any way of measuring the current motor speed ? :?
only have strobes available for 33 , 45 & 78
the motor by itself runs too fast to read ... so over 78
with platter etc it runs under 33 , switching to 60hz runs faster but not up to 33.

cheers

Thunderbox
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Re: Help : Teac Magnefloat TS-80 - Rare Beauty

Post by Thunderbox » 29 May 2018 02:58

There is an app for your phone called RPM Calculator. You set the phone on the platter and it tells you the speed. Accurate as can be I have verified on my phone and it's dead on. I am sure it depends on the phone but give it a try. If you are only off by an rpm or so you can usually fix that by changing the belt width. If not I put a thin coat of lacquer on the pulley by putting it in a drill and spaying it on as it rotates slowly. You have to make sure the lacquer is good and dry before trying it.

.

Spinner45
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Re: Help : Teac Magnefloat TS-80 - Rare Beauty

Post by Spinner45 » 29 May 2018 03:38

Thunderbox wrote:There is an app for your phone called RPM Calculator. You set the phone on the platter and it tells you the speed. Accurate as can be I have verified on my phone and it's dead on. I am sure it depends on the phone but give it a try. If you are only off by an rpm or so you can usually fix that by changing the belt width. If not I put a thin coat of lacquer on the pulley by putting it in a drill and spaying it on as it rotates slowly. You have to make sure the lacquer is good and dry before trying it.

.
Oh please!
Those RPM "apps" are worthless junk for the cellphone-addicted crowd.
Let the man use the original and accurate strobe disk, specifically made for turntable use.
Because "apps" are not the right "go to" for everything in the world.

spot245
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Re: Help : Teac Magnefloat TS-80 - Rare Beauty

Post by spot245 » 29 May 2018 08:31

No don't think there's an app to fix this ...unless it can identify the motor and provide the correct cap values for it to run at 33 & 45.
I'm not interested in any "home repairs" ...it's just working around the real issue. I have spent quite a few hours fixing (or more accurately removing) "ad-hoc" repairs on different turntables. The manufacturer usually had it right so reverting back to original specs usually fixes problems.

I can't see how knowing the speed it's running at is at all relevant :roll: There is a problem that is causing the turntable to run slow. I have checked everything that may impede the speed (clean & oil bearing for example) and the only remaining thing is the caps...believe it's called isolating the problem....same thing a good mechanic would do with a car motor running incorrectly.

thought the motor was asynch and the caps were for motor start and noise suppression ...but now that i know the caps are integral to the operation of the motor I'm confident that new ones will resolve the problem.

cheers

Thunderbox
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Re: Help : Teac Magnefloat TS-80 - Rare Beauty

Post by Thunderbox » 29 May 2018 14:03

Spinner45 wrote:
Thunderbox wrote:There is an app for your phone called RPM Calculator. You set the phone on the platter and it tells you the speed. Accurate as can be I have verified on my phone and it's dead on. I am sure it depends on the phone but give it a try. If you are only off by an rpm or so you can usually fix that by changing the belt width. If not I put a thin coat of lacquer on the pulley by putting it in a drill and spaying it on as it rotates slowly. You have to make sure the lacquer is good and dry before trying it.

.
Oh please!
Those RPM "apps" are worthless junk for the cellphone-addicted crowd.
Let the man use the original and accurate strobe disk, specifically made for turntable use.
Because "apps" are not the right "go to" for everything in the world.
Problem is those strobe discs only tell you when you have the speed correct. They don't tell you how fast or slow the platter is turning. The phone app just helps a person know how much the speed is off. Call the app a piece of junk if you want but it has proven to be a valuable tool for turntables.

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