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Screws. What size and where to find. SME 3009 mk2

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Screws. What size and where to find. SME 3009 mk2

Postby pliskin69 » 10 Feb 2018 13:20

Hello all, newbie member and hifi novice so bear with me!
I have recently bought a TT with an SME 3009 Mk 2 tone arm and on removing the base of the TT found the block and cables are held onto the base arm connector with tape!! Clearly the screw has gone missing so would like to replace.
Does anyone know the size of screws to hold this in place and where I'd be able to buy one?
Thank you!
Peter
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Re: Screws. What size and where to find. SME 3009 mk2

Postby tlscapital » 11 Feb 2018 00:11

What SME 3009 (MK 2) model is it more precisely ? Can you provide us with picture of the tonearm counterweight side and cable connectors at it's base so we can see better what screws you are referring to.

That tape thing implies previous tweaks so who knows what they've done there...
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Re: Screws. What size and where to find. SME 3009 mk2

Postby pliskin69 » 11 Feb 2018 01:04

Thanks for the info. I had no idea there were diff version of the 3009 mk2, I really am a novice! I'll take pictures tomorrow and upload. Thanks for the feedback.
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Re: Screws. What size and where to find. SME 3009 mk2

Postby tlscapital » 11 Feb 2018 01:26

OK, yes few important variations for those SME with the alloy arm wand designed between 1961 and 1984. You get the 3009 SII, 3009 'Improved' SII & 3009 'Improved' S2.

They originally all had the same "triangular" 4 pin bar & ground connector. Some do the RCA cable connectors conversion. But I believe that does not respect the capacitance coherence.

And since your tonearm was previously tweaked and for some reasons the cable connector held with tape, it's just better to make sure of what you actually have and what's missing.
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Re: Screws. What size and where to find. SME 3009 mk2

Postby smee4 » 11 Feb 2018 23:32

It may not be tweaked. Both mine came without srews and the connector falls off very easily. The tape is probably just to stop it falling off.

I would suggest the OP considers one of the mods that replaces the original system with RCA phono sockets, or, as I have done, hard wire a decent cable to the tonearm.
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Re: Screws. What size and where to find. SME 3009 mk2

Postby pliskin69 » 12 Feb 2018 10:10

smee4 wrote:It may not be tweaked. Both mine came without srews and the connector falls off very easily. The tape is probably just to stop it falling off.

I would suggest the OP considers one of the mods that replaces the original system with RCA phono sockets, or, as I have done, hard wire a decent cable to the tonearm.


That's interesting to know.

I've now realised the screening can is also missing! The arm is working fine, just wondered how critical the screening can is to the long term 'safety' of the arm etc?

Slightly belated, but here's a picture as requested.
Attachments
IMG_1968.JPG
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Re: Screws. What size and where to find. SME 3009 mk2

Postby tlscapital » 12 Feb 2018 12:09

OK you have a SME 3009 S II. The "screening can" purpose is to shield the tonearm wires inside the plinth. Some do without. So I am not sure about "safety" issue as such but maybe interference pick-up... your ears should be able to warn you if ever.

Those "screening can" pop-up for sale from time to time as spare parts. Shouldn't be to dear so a welcome buy if you get the chance. Mind you you have longer and shorter versions of them... and with your TD 150 you don't want the long one.

Now could you take pictures from the underside of the turntable without the base so we can visualize the tonearm base and connectors and/or what's left of it ? Out of curiosity can you tell if your knife edge bearing is steel or resin ? It looks shiny enough to be steel but I just wonder there...
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Re: Screws. What size and where to find. SME 3009 mk2

Postby pliskin69 » 12 Feb 2018 21:56

Thanks for the info. Very close, it's actually a TD125 Mk1, not sure if that makes a difference height wise?
I know what size screw I need now and thankfully it's readily available here in the UK.
Still need to sort out the screening can and a new cart though.
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Re: Screws. What size and where to find. SME 3009 mk2

Postby smee4 » 12 Feb 2018 23:23

I can appreciate wanting to keep things original, but you could simply wrap the connections with some of that wide aluminium or copper stick-on shielding tape.
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Re: Screws. What size and where to find. SME 3009 mk2

Postby tlscapital » 13 Feb 2018 10:48

pliskin69 wrote:Thanks for the info. Very close, it's actually a TD125 Mk1, not sure if that makes a difference height wise?
I know what size screw I need now and thankfully it's readily available here in the UK.
Still need to sort out the screening can and a new cart though.


Most of the pre 1972 Thorens turntables were, logically then, fitted with pre-'Improved' SME tonearms when they were. My haste in intuition here got me fooled like an absolute beginner on this one. :P No difference in height.

TD125 off course: the grey-ish painted top plate instead of the aluminium one was the hint in the picture... You got yourself a "smoothie" Thorens then :wink: A TD160 would have been a "suede-head" one...TD124 a "mod" one...
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Re: Screws. What size and where to find. SME 3009 mk2

Postby pliskin69 » 13 Feb 2018 12:43

I wasn't trying to catch anyone out, just took a picture of the tonearm as you said. ;-)
I have a TD160 too, just about visible in the background. I've been running that as my main deck until the TD125 and SME cropped up with an offer too good to refuse.
I've got it all set up now, at least on a basic level and it's working a dream. The Shure cart that it came with is very warm and rich, good separation and in the mids, but really lacking in top end detail. I'd be interested to hear what carts you have used and which ones you liked and why.
Best, Peter
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Re: Screws. What size and where to find. SME 3009 mk2

Postby medwaybeat » 13 Feb 2018 14:17

I threw the original cable away when I bought my 3009 and soldered new phono cables direct to the sockets on the arm. Who would have thought a second hand cable would cost so much today, but it was over 20 years ago. Having the screening fitted has made no difference in my experience regarding noise.
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Re: Screws. What size and where to find. SME 3009 mk2

Postby tlscapital » 13 Feb 2018 14:57

medwaybeat wrote:I threw the original cable away when I bought my 3009 and soldered new phono cables direct to the sockets on the arm. Who would have thought a second hand cable would cost so much today, but it was over 20 years ago. Having the screening fitted has made no difference in my experience regarding noise.


Doing each tweak one step at a time, this was one of my last tweaks I did on my SME 3009 tonearm. The original cables were getting too scruffy. After some thoughts I decided to skip on the RCA's cable conversion and soldered a spare new cable directly on the original 4 pins bar SME connectors. And man what a blast in sound clarity I got instantly.

Cables impedance might be at stake in this case but evidently the original SME corroded RCA jacks change played the biggest part. And the fact that I recycled a spare brand new shielded phono cable I was given made it all cheap and cheerful. And the fact that that new cable is shielded stop the radio frequencies interferences I had occasionally.
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Re: Screws. What size and where to find. SME 3009 mk2

Postby pliskin69 » 13 Feb 2018 16:01

medwaybeat wrote:I threw the original cable away when I bought my 3009 and soldered new phono cables direct to the sockets on the arm. Who would have thought a second hand cable would cost so much today, but it was over 20 years ago. Having the screening fitted has made no difference in my experience regarding noise.


That's good to know, I won't rush out and try to track one down straight away then.

I've been running the TD125/SME3009Mk2 all day yesterday and today and I must admit I am enjoying it, albeit it's a little warm with the current cart.
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Re: Screws. What size and where to find. SME 3009 mk2

Postby tlscapital » 13 Feb 2018 16:53

pliskin69 wrote:I wasn't trying to catch anyone out, just took a picture of the tonearm as you said. ;-)
I have a TD160 too, just about visible in the background. I've been running that as my main deck until the TD125 and SME cropped up with an offer too good to refuse.
I've got it all set up now, at least on a basic level and it's working a dream. The Shure cart that it came with is very warm and rich, good separation and in the mids, but really lacking in top end detail. I'd be interested to hear what carts you have used and which ones you liked and why.
Best, Peter


This SME 3009 SII of yours is considered as a medium to high effective mass tonearm. So your choice of cartridge will first be trim down according to that. High compliant cartridge are in theory but most certainly in real also out the ideal matching league. Medium and teasing with low compliance cartridges should be a better fix mathematically at least that is. Then accordingly you either go for MC or MM ? And so on...

Actually I'm running only with my Denon DL-102 for the last 7 years. I collect original American soul 45's from the 6T's and 7T's mainly and that explains my orientation for this MONO cartridge/pick-up designed in 1962 for air-play broadcast playback. It's conical nude stylus won't provide the finest groove read but is the perfect match for my vintage 45's MONO groove. And it even reads decently without damages the STEREO records. This cartridge just suits my need, use and budget.

Not the most refined cartridge out there but with the rest of my phono set-up it is still allowing enough clarity and dynamic to display a 2-D image. In compensation the Denon DL-102 yet achieves to provide enough depth, details and balance in the highs, meds (bit less maybe) and lows. If the rest of my set-up would sound "warm" and "round" as some like to depict the vintage "tube" sound, I doubt very much my Denon DL-102 would sound as deep and dynamic as it is.

First I fitted this DL-102 on a SME 399 'Improved' S2. The counter weight pushed back to it's limit still managed to allow to play this cartridge. After a little while I started to convert this tonearm first into a detachable headshell one and gradually added effective mass here and there while doing other upgrades. Every tweak I did I gained into the cartridge groove read and likely the tonearm/cartridge resonance factor for an overall sound improvement.

So the choice of your future cartridge should be done with the trim down criteria as above, then on a budget and finally for what support of records and finally music genres it will be dedicated to read mainly. The rest can only be a guessing game as which will prove a good to better match with the rest of your phono set-up and it's ability to evolve/upgrade or not with fixings, tweaks and re-organistion in space. But what Shure cartridge is that you have on it now ?
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