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Turntable operation problems

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Turntable operation problems

Postby alffox » 18 Dec 2017 16:20

Ultra Stereogram Model No 6339 purchased in 1974 is still in good condition although not played very often. Both Radio and Turntable working. While the unit plays the records fine, the automatic operation of moving the arm to the record is non existent and so has to be placed manually on the record - then the arm does not proceed all the way to the centre spindle - and thus the record keeps spinning - the centre spindle does not operate correctly for the next record to drop down - am looking for an easy solution to this problem - Hoping someone may be able to come up with an easy answer. Otherwise rarely used but just on the odd occasion to keep it active and in playing mode. Would like to get it back to perfect condition at low cost. The turntable is a BSR and can be seen here at
https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/sho ... hp?t=42473 - almost identical to my own turntable fitted in the radiogram cabinet. Almost exact turntable posted by BEN 28 June 2009 - fourth thumbnail
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Re: Turntable operation problems

Postby ponytrekker » 18 Dec 2017 16:46

The 'cheat' for this sort of problem involves a little bit of disassembly and a hair dryer. Remove the retaining circlip in the centre of the platter - lift off the platter and apply heat to the mechanics underneath. This will soften the old grease, which will have turned into glue over the years. IT'S NOT A SOLUTION but it might get the thing going again.

I would hate to think of a tonearm going all the way into the centre spindle! I assume you mean it ends up in the run off groove but doesn't lift and return? That will be an issue with the trip pawls....and you will need to get technical with that one. If you are not as lazy as you describe yourself to be :roll: come back and I will tell you how to do it.
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Re: Turntable operation problems

Postby alffox » 18 Dec 2017 20:44

Many thanks ponytrekker. Will certainly give it the hot air treatment within the next day or two - off out to Central London by coach tomorrow so Tuesday is not available. Definitely not lazy by nature and will try my hand at anything that can get this unit working correctly and can upend the radiogram if necessary to offer heat from below as well. You are right about the run off groove and not lifting and returning. Hope you have the answer and can solve the problem. Fingers crossed.
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Re: Turntable operation problems

Postby ponytrekker » 19 Dec 2017 00:01

Not a problem - old BSRs hardly ever die!
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Re: Turntable operation problems

Postby ponytrekker » 19 Dec 2017 01:21

And no need to upend the whole thing - there are flip up retaining clips on the bottom ends of the transit screws, which allow you to lift the deck free of the motor board.
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Re: Turntable operation problems

Postby alffox » 20 Dec 2017 16:02

Good afternoon PT - have given my BSR the full treatment with a garden blower clearing dust and debris where possible. Have also given the deck the heat treatment both sides as I have removed the deck from the radiogram - the aluminium drive wheel does seem as if it could be a little bit easier to rotate . would a spot of WD40 or machine oil of some sort Help to free up any stiff components? Will await your reply before proceeding further. Thanks for your Help so far - now for the next stage.
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Re: Turntable operation problems

Postby ponytrekker » 20 Dec 2017 18:12

Hi - a squirt of WD40 down the motor spindle might Help as well as warming up the bottom bearing - if the worst comes to the worst you might need to strip and clean the motor. Don't use oil anywhere else just yet - the trip pawls, for example, must be dry and free to move without oil (the drag stops them working properly).
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Re: Turntable operation problems

Postby smee4 » 21 Dec 2017 02:31

I don't recommend squirting WD40 on bearings. I fill a small syringe with light machine oil. The needle allows you to place drops of oil just where they need to go.
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Re: Turntable operation problems

Postby Spinner45 » 21 Dec 2017 03:48

alffox wrote:Good afternoon PT - have given my BSR the full treatment with a garden blower clearing dust and debris where possible. Have also given the deck the heat treatment both sides as I have removed the deck from the radiogram - the aluminium drive wheel does seem as if it could be a little bit easier to rotate . would a spot of WD40 or machine oil of some sort Help to free up any stiff components? Will await your reply before proceeding further. Thanks for your Help so far - now for the next stage.


The only reliable remedy is to do a complete teardown, cleaning, and re-lubing.
This involves hours of work, and a proper knowledge of the mechanicals and how they all work.
Anything less is merely wasting time and results in poor performance.
They ALL need the involvement after decades of neglect.
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Re: Turntable operation problems

Postby Big_Walleye » 21 Dec 2017 03:48

smee4 wrote:I don't recommend squirting WD40 on bearings. I fill a small syringe with light machine oil. The needle allows you to place drops of oil just where they need to go.


Good tip, WD-40 was never meant to be a lubricant.
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Re: Turntable operation problems

Postby alffox » 22 Dec 2017 16:58

Almost but not quite perfection. With multiple records on the spindle - I move the start lever to AUTO and the playing sequence begins by the arm moving slightly to the right which then operates the action of the centre spindle which drops the LP on the turntable. Plays the records (LP's)without any problem - beautiful sound quality until the arm reaches the centre of the record sits in the run off groove and then has to be manually moved to the spindle to reject the record and thus release the next disc. That is the only sequence not working correctly. Your comment PT has hit the nail on the head - YOU ARE CORRECT IN YOUR ASSUMPTION - "I ASSUME YOU MEAN IT ENDS UP IN THE RUN OFF GROOVE BUT DOES NOT LIFT AND RETURN" Have tried repositioning the drive cog beneath the turntable to different positions and feel that the problem lies here - am not knowledgable enough to remove and clean the various parts and would say that the motor is performing well. So any further Help will be appreciated and will leave the BSR sitting loose for a day or two. The only way I could play records was by a total manual operation so I have made some improvement.
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Re: Turntable operation problems

Postby ponytrekker » 22 Dec 2017 17:50

Hello again - that looks like a C129 you have there. I don't have one in at the moment but the principles are the same on most of these decks. remove the platter and you will see a large cog wheel. Attached to it are two pawls at roughly 9 o clock. They are the device which trips the auto return mechanism when the tonearm speeds up in the run off groove - called a 'velocity trip'. They are almost certainly gummed up and not working properly. Remove the little circlip that retains them CAUTION - the overriding ambition of every circlip is to fly off and spend the rest of its life under a nearby skirting board! remove the pawls (being careful to note which one is on top and which way round they go!). Clean the pawls and the spindle with a solvent - alcohol will do - getting rid of every trace of oil - they must run dry. Reassemble and Bob's your mum's brother! NB if the 2 pawls are one on top and one underneath the cog (some models) come back for more advice.
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Re: Turntable operation problems

Postby alffox » 22 Dec 2017 20:05

Many thanks Pony Trekker - the label that was attached - small square red and black BSR label states
C123R-A-1
CB.3412/378
0.34.R.L3
Always use above reference
Volts 230
Hz 50
AMPS
Switch Rating 1 AMPS

Will have another look in the daylight tomorrow and hopefully sort out the final problem.
Thanks again - Alf Fox
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Re: Turntable operation problems

Postby alffox » 09 Jan 2018 17:44

Hello ponytrekker or any other valuable helpers - alf fox has returned to his Ultra Radiogram for a further attempt to sort out the issues on the BSR Record changer. I have removed the large cog now and cleaned up all of the long ago hard grease etc especially underneath and the two pawls as you mentioned are now running free BUT when I removed the large cog from its position a ball bearing popped out from somewhere near to the two pawls but unfortunately I have no idea where it came from and cannot complete the refitting until I know where the bearing goes. Can you Help me on this. It has nothing to do with the small bearings in the hub at the base of the spindle. Otherwise I seem to be moving forward if not very slowly in putting everything back. The bearing definately popped out when I removed the large cog.
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Re: Turntable operation problems

Postby Spinner45 » 09 Jan 2018 19:44

alffox wrote:Hello ponytrekker or any other valuable helpers - alf fox has returned to his Ultra Radiogram for a further attempt to sort out the issues on the BSR Record changer. I have removed the large cog now and cleaned up all of the long ago hard grease etc especially underneath and the two pawls as you mentioned are now running free BUT when I removed the large cog from its position a ball bearing popped out from somewhere near to the two pawls but unfortunately I have no idea where it came from and cannot complete the refitting until I know where the bearing goes. Can you Help me on this. It has nothing to do with the small bearings in the hub at the base of the spindle. Otherwise I seem to be moving forward if not very slowly in putting everything back. The bearing definately popped out when I removed the large cog.


The bearing rides in the CLEAN track indentation under the trip slide that the tonearm moves.
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