Help choosing new turntable after 30-40 years !

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Fidelio69
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Choosing new turntable after 30-40 years

Post by Fidelio69 » 15 Dec 2017 11:42

Hi to everybody , this is my first topic.

I am considering of buying my first turtable since 40 years.
The one and only was a Technics SL2000 + stanton cartridge in the 80s ...

Now I want to start over.

I own Marantz CD6006, PM6006, Audioengine BT adaptor thru Marantz optical/DAC (which sounds very very nice btw) and Wharfedale 3 way 9.5

I am very satisfied for the overall system, but I would like to buy a new turntable

At a first time I thought of buying a good table as Rega P3 2016 5 stars whatfi without its awful Elys2 (I heard it on youtube it is TERRIBLE compared to ortofon or nagaoka),
and immediatly consider it to buy a NAGAOKA mp150 since I heard MP110 is a kind too 'thin' on highs, while the 150 is more accurate and consistent.

But in order to do so, as you all know, I must buy RAISERS (since rega p3 as no VTA on its arm) , lower counterweight (since when the arm is raised it will hit the dustcover when closed)...
I will go for 1200 euros immedieatly. (!) My wife will kill me !
:)

So the other option would be a REGA p1 2016 (5 stars whatfi) but it is Un-tweakable in fact it lacks ANTISKATE (!) and VTA for 300 euros
:x

I was instead considering the option of buying a very cheap dj table OMNITRONIC DD-2250 (180 euros) with a NAGAOKA MP110 (total about 310 euros) ...do you think this combination will it be a waiste of money for the poor quality of the turntable compared
to the very good quality I heard of the nagaoka ??

I was thinking that the option Omnitronic2250 + Naga110 will be better sounding system than a Rega P1 2016 + MM carbon stock at the same price ...since the cartridge is so important... but maybe I am wrong ...what do you think about it ??
:roll:

Thx you very much indeed

DeepEnd
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Re: Choosing new turntable after 30-40 years

Post by DeepEnd » 15 Dec 2017 12:31

Welcome to the forum and a really good question.

I am probably a bit biased (been a Rega “3” user since early 80’s) but I would think the 2016 Planar 3 with the MP-110 WITHOUT a spacer (not requiring a counterweight change etc.) would be my starting point and outperform lots of other options. I find it hard to suggest the lower Rega’s due to the fixed/auto bias.

The lower tonearm position will also Help to avoid avoid any potential “unruliness” in the treble of the MP-110 (my perception of the MP110 rather than “thin”). If you decide in the future you can buy a MP-200 stylus add spacer, etc, etc.

I have a MP-11 Boron, plus both MP200 and MP-110 styli and they work well in the Rega arm.

Fidelio69
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Re: Choosing new turntable after 30-40 years

Post by Fidelio69 » 15 Dec 2017 12:50

Hi !
thxs for your kind reply


Why do you say rega p3 + nega110 with no spacer/raiser ?!

I believe Elys2 & rega original carts are 14mm while ortofon are 18mm(but I am not sure) , Naga I could not get to know the exact height even asking directly to resellers...
but I think it will be higher indeed than Elys2 14mm...

Not adjusting VTA will it not result in lack of information since the stylus will not work at the ideal 92° degrees ?

Maybe your are talking about old rega p3 which was prefitted/tuned for taller cartridges ?

I am talking about planar3 new model 2016 with Rega Rb330 tonearm which is tuned in height for Elys2.

thx you

tobyKenobi
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Re: Choosing new turntable after 30-40 years

Post by tobyKenobi » 15 Dec 2017 13:07

Another (vintage) Planar 3 owner. I'm also thinking about updating my cartridge (possibly Goldring Elektra) and have asked about the spacer issue. There's a lot of confusing advice about it - for example, this thread is the first time I've heard about older Regas being pre-set for taller cartridges.

I've had a Rega cart and later a Linn K9. The K9 is definitely several millimetres taller than the Rega. Both worked well. I'd get the Planar 3 and try your preferred cart without spacers first.

Fidelio69
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Re: Choosing new turntable after 30-40 years

Post by Fidelio69 » 15 Dec 2017 13:12

tobyKenobi wrote: this thread is the first time I've heard about older Regas being pre-set for taller cartridges.

"Maybe your are talking about old rega p3 which was prefitted/tuned for taller cartridges ?"

sorry but I intended the final questione mark (?) as a question since I was NOT sure at all of what I was writing.

Sorry for the misunderstanding...
Last edited by Fidelio69 on 15 Dec 2017 13:17, edited 1 time in total.

DeepEnd
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Re: Choosing new turntable after 30-40 years

Post by DeepEnd » 15 Dec 2017 13:17

Whilst getting the correct SRA is a goal this is far more of an issue with line contact types than elliptical.

If you look at the maths then a 2mm difference in arm height is less than half a degree on SRA. Given the accuracy of stylus alignment by manufacturers is about +\- 2 degrees and changes in tracking force and warps give larger changes than half a degree then the error in arm height becomes less important than some believe.

I do have fully adjustable VTA/SRA and a Tungsten counterweight on my Rega (so no problem with lids) and yes on my Paratrace tipped A&R there is a very very slight change with arm height. With the elliptical E77 and MP-110 and MP-200 the difference is minute and just reducing the tracking force by 0.05g brings them back to normal.

Just for info the Rega cartridges were designed to suit the old Rega Planar 3’s !

tobyKenobi
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Re: Choosing new turntable after 30-40 years

Post by tobyKenobi » 15 Dec 2017 13:21

Fidelio69 wrote:
tobyKenobi wrote: "Maybe your are talking about old rega p3 which was prefitted/tuned for taller cartridges ?"

sorry but I intended the final questione mark (?) as a question since I was NOT sure at all of what I was writing.

Sorry for the misunderstanding...
No, that makes sense. You may be right. Could explain why I never had an issue putting a taller cartridge on my 90s Rega.

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Re: Choosing new turntable after 30-40 years

Post by raphaelmabo » 15 Dec 2017 13:34

There are of course many answers to the question of which new turntable to buy. A quite inexpensive alternative to Technics SL1200 is the Audio-Technica AT5. This has direct drive and a good tonearm, more solid construction with better damping and clearly a better tonearm than the cheap DJ-tables. This one offers fully adjustments.

Other alternatives could be the Thorens TD203 that I have myself. Comparable in sound quality and performance as the Rega P3 - it has a stable electronically controlled belt drive with motor suspended and isolated from the plinth by rubber bands, the tonearm is the TP82 unipivot and this one is rather special. It comes with a version of the AT3600, but it's easy to change cartridge - easier than on the Rega. The tonearm has a detachable headshell. The tonearm can be raised and lowered by unlocking a screw under the plinth. However, the height adjustment range is quite limited. I'm very happy with mine.

Another alternative in the same price range is the Teac TN-550. It's a great looking turntable with a two-plinth construction with the top layer made out of their own formula of crushed stones combined with different polymers to form a stable and resonance-free platform that looks like marble. Electronically controlled belt drive, acrylic platter, and a nice tonearm with a detachable headshell with standard SME mount.

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Re: Choosing new turntable after 30-40 years

Post by Fidelio69 » 15 Dec 2017 14:18

Hi, yes I was considering audiotechnica , Teac TN550 and Thorens 230 options.

But while Teac TN550 seems very nice to me, a FAMOUS Youtuber owner of a tt/record shop in Tokyo destroyed Teac Tn550 for serious speed /motor
issues. The Thorens 203 seems very nice to me but , at the moment , seems REGA p3 is immediate cash in case things go wrong and I will have to sell everything

I forgot to say that in my house there is a major issue/question mark since the TT should be placed very low on a wood furniture
on the same plane along AMPLI/CD and even worst the SPEAKERS THEMSELVES !
(which I remember are WH 9.5 which are not of the smaller kind of type)

Tonite a very old friend of mine will borrow me a ??undefined?? TT just to make sure
1.the pre phono on the Marantz PM6006 is ok (I do not think that will be a problem though)
2.positioning the TT so low and so NEAR (almost in contact) to the speakers will not generate vidrations/resonances too high and too audible raising especially up the volume

If it is the case I can attach a photo.

That is also the reason why I wanted to start from a very LOW budget as the Omnitronic DD2250 / Audiotechnica AT120 / Pioneer PLHX500 / Rega P1 fearing that all would be a waist of money for the positioning problem
as written above.

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Re: Choosing new turntable after 30-40 years

Post by Fidelio69 » 15 Dec 2017 14:40

this is what I am talking about ... :(
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raphaelmabo
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Re: Choosing new turntable after 30-40 years

Post by raphaelmabo » 15 Dec 2017 14:50

Your placement is really not ideal.
My Thorens TD203 stands on a small IKEA Lack-table, and my amps etc is placed next to it on another Lack-table. This works well. A Lack-table cost around 6 - 10 euro (white is the most inexpensive option).
http://www.ikea.com/se/sv/catalog/products/20011413/

Fidelio69
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Re: Choosing new turntable after 30-40 years

Post by Fidelio69 » 15 Dec 2017 14:56

ye I know LACK perfectly I own the one you posted for my wood chessboard, but no way I will put in my living room, it does not fit (for style / space / DOG / wife issues)
:)

TT must lay in its place over there..otherwise I will consider remaining with FLAC/Cds unfortunately
:(

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Re: Choosing new turntable after 30-40 years

Post by Nigel Gomez » 15 Dec 2017 15:49

Can you move the speakers to the sides of the shelf? Can you shift the assembly any possible way other than placing the turntable so close to the speakers? The vibrations will kill your sound.

Fidelio69
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Re: Choosing new turntable after 30-40 years

Post by Fidelio69 » 15 Dec 2017 16:06

No, unfortunately... as you can see by yourself...
:(

Should I start with something cheap/low budget or give it all up ??
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Re: Choosing new turntable after 30-40 years

Post by raphaelmabo » 15 Dec 2017 18:03

Ah, but I do see a solution there! :)
You have shelves! Below the shelf with the fruit bowl, you have a place there to put a turntable. A white one so it blends in with the surroundings. Drill a hole in the back of the furniture so you can hide the cables. Now you need quite long cables from the turntable, so avoid a turntable with fixed cables. (I can't judge from the image if the shelf is deep enough to fit a turntable, that's the place I would put one if I were in your situation).

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