Ariston RD11S v. Thorens TD160mk1

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tlscapital
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Re: Ariston RD11S v. Thorens TD160mk1

Post by tlscapital » 06 Jan 2018 09:26

Carbon13 wrote:Restored rd11s. Sounds as sweet as she looks!
Good. Still I am certain that contrario to your "original post" the comparison you are doing is not between the Ariston RD11 S and the Thorens TD160 MK I per say but much more between the SME 3009 'Improved' S2 with a Shure V15 and a TP16 with a Nagaoka MP-10 both fitted on similar in design turntables.

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Re: Ariston RD11S v. Thorens TD160mk1

Post by Carbon13 » 06 Jan 2018 15:30

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jackie
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Re: Ariston RD11S v. Thorens TD160mk1

Post by jackie » 06 Jan 2018 19:56

I have used the SME on both decks and I can tell you the Ariston wins easily, the only way to close the gap may be if you use the TD160 SUPER. this of course is only my opinion. The other thing to note is the price difference between the two decks the user has, the Ariston costed a lot more when they were both new.

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Re: Ariston RD11S v. Thorens TD160mk1

Post by Toaster » 07 Jan 2018 03:10

In the end, all you can do is listen in the context of your own system. Earlier TD160 Mk 1s are very similar to the later TD160S in most respects. In design and engineering terms, the two turntables-Thorens and Ariston/ Linn- are very close, although small details can make a difference of course.

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Re: Ariston RD11S v. Thorens TD160mk1

Post by jackie » 07 Jan 2018 13:44

The build on the Ariston is much better, attention to detail in every area pays off in sound quality, that is why I think the TD160 Super may be closer in sound to the Ariston.

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Re: Ariston RD11S v. Thorens TD160mk1

Post by tlscapital » 07 Jan 2018 15:33

Differences if ever

Thorens TD160 MK I platter weight 3.1 Kg - Super 3.2 Kg - Ariston RD11 S 3.2Kg

Thorens TD160 MK I motor 16 pole - Super 16b pole - Ariston RD11 S 24 pole

Thorens TD160 MK I weight 8.5 Kg - Super 11 Kg - Ariston RD11 S 13Kg

So once again, the plinth of the Ariston are made in thick solid wood and provide a better sub-chassis dampening and greater static mass.

This feature is indeed a true benefit and one of the first tweak to do on about any the Thorens turntables who have "cheaper" laminated MDF plinth.

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Re: Ariston RD11S v. Thorens TD160mk1

Post by jackie » 07 Jan 2018 15:43

The Ariston may have a thicker top plate and certainly has a superb bearing.

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Re: Ariston RD11S v. Thorens TD160mk1

Post by Carbon13 » 12 Jan 2018 17:37

UPDATE!

Well now I've gone and done it. The Ariston sounded terrific compared to the Thorens right off the bat. I went through a full service of the Ariston, the suspension was hell to tune, really finicky and super sensitive. I think because of the mass of the platter, the sweetspot for the suspension is low and rather narrow to achieve. I was super impressed with the build quality though. Really clean inside too.

But it got me thinking why the Thorens sounds so poor. So I decided to take another crack at it. I retuned the suspension and got what I consider to be the best bounce possible. I then decided to adjust the VTA, which I had not done before. I noticed the MP110 was at a bit of a funny angle even with spacers in place on the headshell. Voila! The Thorens is singing!!

My problem now is that the Thorens sounds even a step better than the Ariston! Go figure. However, I have not yet put on a new stylus on the Ariston and I know that Shure V15 IV cart should be super if I get it dialed in right.

So now the Thorens has taken the lead and my efforts are to see if I can get the Ariston to perform better, which by all rights it should. Damn this hobby's endless pursuit of perfect sound nirvana... :?

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Re: Ariston RD11S v. Thorens TD160mk1

Post by Wimbo » 13 Jan 2018 03:14

Toaster wrote:They should be pretty close if both are well set up- the Ariston/ Linn is essentially just a slightly better built TD150 after all. I've owned TD150s, '160s and the Linn LP12 myself. The outer platter and plinth are nicer on the Linn and the early RD11s, and the subchassis is a bit less bendy, but the main bearing on the Thorens is fine. Apart from variations in set up, older turntables can also vary quite a bit in terms of condition, so it's not going to be like comparing two new examples.
Please remember that the RD11S had nothing to do with the Linn. This was designed by the Dunlop company (Systemdeck) who called themselves Ariston Audio. The big cafuffle back in 71 was based on the RD11 ( Hamish Robertsons design,original Ariston Company owner ) that was manufactured by Ivor Teifenbruns dad's company, Castle Precision. Hamish was already dead when the "S" was designed and released.

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Re: Ariston RD11S v. Thorens TD160mk1

Post by Wimbo » 13 Jan 2018 03:17

Carbon13 wrote:UPDATE!

Well now I've gone and done it. The Ariston sounded terrific compared to the Thorens right off the bat. I went through a full service of the Ariston, the suspension was hell to tune, really finicky and super sensitive. I think because of the mass of the platter, the sweetspot for the suspension is low and rather narrow to achieve. I was super impressed with the build quality though. Really clean inside too.

But it got me thinking why the Thorens sounds so poor. So I decided to take another crack at it. I retuned the suspension and got what I consider to be the best bounce possible. I then decided to adjust the VTA, which I had not done before. I noticed the MP110 was at a bit of a funny angle even with spacers in place on the headshell. Voila! The Thorens is singing!!

My problem now is that the Thorens sounds even a step better than the Ariston! Go figure. However, I have not yet put on a new stylus on the Ariston and I know that Shure V15 IV cart should be super if I get it dialed in right.

So now the Thorens has taken the lead and my efforts are to see if I can get the Ariston to perform better, which by all rights it should. Damn this hobby's endless pursuit of perfect sound nirvana... :?
Keep both mate 8)

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Re: Ariston RD11S v. Thorens TD160mk1

Post by tlscapital » 13 Jan 2018 13:20

Wimbo wrote:Please remember that the RD11S had nothing to do with the Linn. This was designed by the Dunlop company (Systemdeck) who called themselves Ariston Audio. The big cafuffle back in 71 was based on the RD11 ( Hamish Robertsons design,original Ariston Company owner ) that was manufactured by Ivor Teifenbruns dad's company, Castle Precision. Hamish was already dead when the "S" was designed and released.
Nothing to do with is over the top IMO. A lot to do with with a joined and linked history, brand name, people and design. Even if they do bare their singular differences, in time also. True !

They were smaller brands than Thorens with a "finer" craft finish in the production of the turntable components, assembly and price in the end aimed at another wallet market reflecting that.

Often claimed to be of better build and design, they actually stolen their designs from the Thorens turntables and gave them solid wood plinth and heavier overall chassis caliber.

This indisputably would benefit the deck inertia ability and dampening. The supposedly better machined spindle bearing implies that the Thorens one's would not be that good. News to me...

Those objectively better features are often DIY done by enlightened Thorens turntable tweaker. They can even be done without changing the original outside look for those who prefer them such.

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Re: Ariston RD11S v. Thorens TD160mk1

Post by Wimbo » 13 Jan 2018 23:14

tlscapital wrote:
Wimbo wrote:Please remember that the RD11S had nothing to do with the Linn. This was designed by the Dunlop company (Systemdeck) who called themselves Ariston Audio. The big cafuffle back in 71 was based on the RD11 ( Hamish Robertsons design,original Ariston Company owner ) that was manufactured by Ivor Teifenbruns dad's company, Castle Precision. Hamish was already dead when the "S" was designed and released.
Nothing to do with is over the top IMO. A lot to do with with a joined and linked history, brand name, people and design. Even if they do bare their singular differences, in time also. True !

They were smaller brands than Thorens with a "finer" craft finish in the production of the turntable components, assembly and price in the end aimed at another wallet market reflecting that.

Often claimed to be of better build and design, they actually stolen their designs from the Thorens turntables and gave them solid wood plinth and heavier overall chassis caliber.

This indisputably would benefit the deck inertia ability and dampening. The supposedly better machined spindle bearing implies that the Thorens one's would not be that good. News to me...

Those objectively better features are often DIY done by enlightened Thorens turntable tweaker. They can even be done without changing the original outside look for those who prefer them such.
Dont know what your talking about mate. I was pointing out that the RD11S had nothing to do with the LP12. No mention of Thorens.

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Re: Ariston RD11S v. Thorens TD160mk1

Post by Toaster » 14 Jan 2018 09:44

I was talking about the close mechanical similarities between the turntables I mentioned Wimbo, based on direct experience of owning and/ or working on them, not about the history of who built which brand or which version. As the OP has discovered, set up properly the sound quality is similar too, although not identical.

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Re: Ariston RD11S v. Thorens TD160mk1

Post by Wimbo » 14 Jan 2018 09:50

Toaster wrote:I was talking about the close mechanical similarities between the turntables I mentioned Wimbo, based on direct experience of owning and/ or working on them, not about the history of who built which brand or which version. As the OP has discovered, set up properly the sound quality is similar too, although not identical.
Ohh, ok Toaster, pardon.Many people think the RD11 and the RD11s are the same and quote the LP12 as a rip off of the RD11S, which is wasnt.
Cheers.

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Re: Ariston RD11S v. Thorens TD160mk1

Post by Toaster » 14 Jan 2018 09:58

Sure, no problem Wimbo, just clarifying what I meant. If anything the RD11S is a bit closer in layout to the OP's Thorens TD160 than to the TD150/ original RD11/ LP12.