Guide To Rewiring The Thorens Tp16 - Tp11 Tonearm

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dlamprou
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Re: Guide To Rewiring The Thorens Tp16 - Tp11 Tonearm

Post by dlamprou » 24 May 2014 10:23

Hi,

I really can't give you any advice. The decision to keep, or not, the original look of the tonearm, is crucial. If you want to proceed with any modifications then you'll loose the "original look" of your arm.

Is the sound unsatisfactory due to the tonearm wires? Maybe there is something else wrong?

Dimitris

HMT05
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Re: Guide To Rewiring The Thorens Tp16 - Tp11 Tonearm

Post by HMT05 » 10 Jun 2014 21:05

Hi Dimitri

Apologies, for some reason I didn't get an email notification to announce your reply. I have bought some Cardas copper litz to do a rewire, which was my intention - the old wires are poorly looking lacqurice. Sound is okay, but I also have a feeling that a rewire can do wonders - and I think the tp-16 is much better than the reputation that it has.

But in the meantime I've got my hands on a Helius Orion, which will be mounted sometime soon. So the TP-16 10" will be put on the shelve original and untouched.

I hope the Helius will make it a killer TT, especially mounted with a Benz Wood M2. Short update to follow.

Cheers and thanks again!

Henrik

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Re: Guide To Rewiring The Thorens Tp16 - Tp11 Tonearm

Post by seafinch » 22 Jul 2015 22:04

Anyone know if I could use a continuous headshell to phono solution like this...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rega-Cardas-rew ... 3f5082e225

in a TP16 MKiv rewire job?

Or will it need to be done in two pieces?

Thanks.

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Re: Guide To Rewiring The Thorens Tp16 - Tp11 Tonearm

Post by Crug » 06 Sep 2016 20:41

Is there anyone able to help with this rewire job?

How do you get the little shaft out in step 2? I can't get it to budge. Has anyone managed it?

Cheers

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Re: Guide To Rewiring The Thorens Tp16 - Tp11 Tonearm

Post by electroworks » 13 Jan 2017 04:48

I had to hammer to remove the tonearm pin on my TP11. I could not come up with another way.
* Everyone, let me know if this is insanity :shock:

Move the headshell fixing nut out of the way.
Rest the tonearm socket housing on a block of wood that has a small hole in it, so the pin can poke out the bottom side. Do not support or rest the tonearm tube on the block, so it sees no force. Only the socket housing is supported.

I took a small finishing nail, filed down the sharp point, and gently and patiently tapped on it with a small hammer to force the pin to move.
Once it was partially out, I gave it a tug with pliers and the pin slid out.

The only other possibility I can guess is to heat up the tonearm socket housing to expand it and allow the steel pin to move easier. Without melting the socket etc.
Attachments
TD 165 tonearm pin removal.jpg
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cement_head
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Re: Guide To Rewiring The Thorens Tp16 - Tp11 Tonearm

Post by cement_head » 30 Dec 2017 01:59

Hi,

I have a TP16 MKIII tonearm (from a TD 147 Jubilee table) that I'm going to re-wire. I'm going to use this guide (this original post) and this guide: http://www.theanalogdept.com/tp16mkii_rewire.htm

I did have one major concern, and that is getting the connection parts out of the arms (see attachment). How hard is this? I'm technically adept and work on scientific equipment as part of my job, so I'm familiar with finicky things. Should I keep a heat gun/hair dryer on hand to help loosen any glue?

Thanks.
Attachments
P6280003web.jpg
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cement_head
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Re: Guide To Rewiring The Thorens Tp16 - Tp11 Tonearm

Post by cement_head » 30 Dec 2017 02:00

electroworks wrote:I had to hammer to remove the tonearm pin on my TP11. I could not come up with another way.
* Everyone, let me know if this is insanity :shock:

Move the headshell fixing nut out of the way.
Rest the tonearm socket housing on a block of wood that has a small hole in it, so the pin can poke out the bottom side. Do not support or rest the tonearm tube on the block, so it sees no force. Only the socket housing is supported.

I took a small finishing nail, filed down the sharp point, and gently and patiently tapped on it with a small hammer to force the pin to move.
Once it was partially out, I gave it a tug with pliers and the pin slid out.

The only other possibility I can guess is to heat up the tonearm socket housing to expand it and allow the steel pin to move easier. Without melting the socket etc.
Great! Thanks, this is one of my main concerns with my upcoming re-wire job.

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Re: Guide To Rewiring The Thorens Tp16 - Tp11 Tonearm

Post by cement_head » 30 Dec 2017 02:02

seafinch wrote:Anyone know if I could use a continuous headshell to phono solution like this...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rega-Cardas-rew ... 3f5082e225

in a TP16 MKiv rewire job?

Or will it need to be done in two pieces?

Thanks.
I think you can buy the tonearm wire just as wire from CARDAS: http://www.cardas.com/33awg_tonearm.php

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Re: Guide To Rewiring The Thorens Tp16 - Tp11 Tonearm

Post by jdjohn » 09 Jan 2018 15:41

Has anyone here ever just re-wired the socket in the end of the tonearm...maybe put in new clips? I have two headshells that I would like to maintain as truly swappable, and the tonearm socket seems to be the weak point right now - contact is inconsistent - so I'm thinking that new clips and freshly soldered connections in the socket would work.

Do the wires/clips easily come out of the socket for re-working?

Thanks for any input.

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Re: Guide To Rewiring The Thorens Tp16 - Tp11 Tonearm

Post by cement_head » 09 Jan 2018 19:10

I'll let you know, as I'm about to attempt this in the next few weeks...

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Re: Guide To Rewiring The Thorens Tp16 - Tp11 Tonearm

Post by Bullitt5094 » 11 Jan 2018 17:16

I am very interested in this also. Any information would be appreciated.

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Re: Guide To Rewiring The Thorens Tp16 - Tp11 Tonearm

Post by cement_head » 12 Jan 2018 14:23

Bullitt5094 wrote:I am very interested in this also. Any information would be appreciated.
My main thread on the rebuild is here: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=101360

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Re: Guide To Rewiring The Thorens Tp16 - Tp11 Tonearm

Post by jdjohn » 13 Jan 2018 02:27

I went on with the tonearm socket: clip and wiring replacement. I already had some tonearm wire that I harvested from a dump piece, and for replacement clips inside the molded acrylic socket, I used some clips cannibalized from a couple of standard stock cartridge lead wires.

Follow other published procedures for removing the tonearm from the bearing assembly, and also see how to remove the socket. Clip the tonearm wires at the rear of the socket. You are now at the point of no return [-o<

To get the old clips out of the socket, I used a 1/16" drill bit, and a hammer, to persuade the clips out, tapping from the REAR of the socket.
I suggest letting the hole of the clip hang slightly over the edge of your work surface, so the clip has an easy exit from its hole as you tap with the hammer. Keep that drill bit closeby...it might come in handy later.

The next step, of course, is to feed the new wires through their appropriate holes in the socket, and then solder a replacement clip to the end of each wire. Looking at the socket from the end of the tonearm, the colored wires should be pinned as follows:
2 o'clock - Blue (left ground)
4 o'clock - White (left hot)
8 o'clock - Red (right hot)
10 o'clock - Green (right ground)

Actually, if you didn't already know that, you probably shouldn't be attempting this repair :D Regarding the clips, as mentioned, I just used some standard lead wire clips. Other, fancier clips might not fit. For example, those replacement clips that look like a duck's bill won't work...at least they didn't for me. The clips need to be relatively small.

After soldering the replacement clips to the wires, the next step is to insert them into the socket. This is probably the trickiest step (except for maybe soldering the tonearm wires onto the wiring terminal under the chassis). If I were to do this again, I would probably do one at a time instead of all four at once. I put all four wires through, soldered all four clips to the wires, and then tried putting all four clips into the socket at the same time. Putting all four back in at the same time was a pain. I got each one started, and then pushed all of them together against my work surface, then used the flat side of a screwdriver, and repeat. I also used a very small flathead screwdriver to adjust the spacing of the clips. They tended to press against each other during the pressing process, so I had to separate them along the way before pressing more. Of course they don't all go in evenly, so that's why I think doing one at a time might be a better approach. Here's a pic of the socket with the clips back in...not exactly pretty - the face only a mother could love. You can see that the clips are not flush with the end of the socket, but I felt that I needed to stop while I was ahead.
TD16socket.jpg
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Before routing the wires back through the tonearm, I added a few inches of clear heatshrink around the red/green and white/blue pairs. Here is a pic showing the wires with heatshrink after routing the wires through the tonearm.
TD16shrink.jpg
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The next challenge is putting the socket back into the tonearm, adding the sleeve and tightening collar, and re-inserting the pin. Aligning the holes of the tonearm, socket, and collar is critical. The socket goes in first, and can be twisted/manipulated in the tonearm to line up the holes. As with the clip pin-out of the wires in the socket, make sure the orientation of the socket lead clips, tonearm(ref. to rear bearing), and headshell plug is correct before proceeding. Once all the orientations are correct, if the tonearm pin holes don't align with the socket holes, get the 1/16" drill bit and gingerly work it through one side in order to bore a new hole through the socket that aligns properly. The bit should go cleanly all the way through the arm tube (both sides) and the socket. I had to do this eventually...should have done it sooner. Just use pliers to twist the bit through the acrylic of the socket. Once you have a clear shot through the tonearm and socket holes, slide the sleeve and tightening collar TOGETHER over the tonearm and again align those holes. Now drive the pin through it all, gently with a hammer. I was not able to get the pin all the way through the opposite side, so left maybe a mm sticking out from the top, but it was secure enough...I didn't want to force it. Here's a pic looking into the tonearm at the socket when I was finished.
TD16taend.jpg
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As mentioned earlier, the clips were not flush with the end of the socket, so the headshell does not seat as far into the tonearm as it did when stock, but it goes in far enough to make good contact. This, of course, adds to the effective length of the tonearm, and thus cartridge alignment changes as well.

One last note/tip is regarding getting the tonearm wires down through the bearing tube to the underside of the chassis. Mine would not go through on their own by trying to gently snake the wires down. Remember, there are five wires total once you include the ground wire which is attached to the tonearm where the signal wires exit. I also tried using a twist-tie to fish the wires through, but it was too thick. The hole on the top side is larger than the exit hole on the bottom side, so what goes IN might be too thick with extra wires to come OUT. What finally worked for me was using one of the old tonearm wires to fish the 'new' ones through. Fish the old tonearm wire through first, intertwine it with the five 'new' wires, and then wrap them all together with a little Teflon tape. Teflon tape is thin enough to make it through the small exit tube. Here's a pic of my eventual success.
TD16teflon.jpg
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I won't go through the process here of soldering the new tonearm wires to the wiring terminal, but here's a pic of the final product before putting the terminal cover back on.
TD16final.jpg
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You can see I added a length of more clear heatshrink around the left and right wire pairs between the exit hole and the tape, and then again near the length around the wiring terminal.

Sooo, it is possible to replace/rewire the tonearm socket, but I would only recommend attempting this if you have multiple headshells that you want to be able to swap in-and-out. If using only one headshell, a direct re-wiring from cartridge to wiring terminal is advised.

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Re: Guide To Rewiring The Thorens Tp16 - Tp11 Tonearm

Post by soulmerchant » 10 Dec 2018 18:10

I'm currently working on an old BTD-12s. The small pin that holds the connector in place is VERY tough to remove. I see that electroworks used a nail and hammer?

I have been trying this with little success so far. Any ideas? or is there something else to do for this earlier Thorens tonearm?

I must get it out since one of the connections is no longer good. ugh....

Edit : got the pin out finally... but how to pull out the bayonet connector? It is really stuck in there. Maybe I will try to heat it up a bit and go at it again.

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Re: Guide To Rewiring The Thorens Tp16 - Tp11 Tonearm

Post by soulmerchant » 10 Dec 2018 19:47

ok, I got it all out now. Here are some tips for the next time....

1. use a blunt nail that is the same size or a little narrower than the holding pin. you will probably need a hammer to get it to move at the start.
2. push from the bottom to the top (in case you make scratches, the bottom is better).
3. after you get the darn pin out, heat the socket with a hot air gun. pull like the dickens...
4. If you manage to get a tiny crack between the armwand and connector, you can use a knife (or in my case a sharp chisel) to work around and make the tiny gap bigger.

Now that I have it out, I can confirm that one of the wires is dead.... its not just the connector. probably some kind of fatigue after all the years. lovely, now I am looking for some tonearm litz... :)