TD150 Mk1 with issues and needing restoration

music box
oztayls
member
member
Posts: 108
Joined: 12 Dec 2017 08:04
Location: NSW, Australia

TD150 Mk1 with issues and needing restoration

Post by oztayls » 16 Oct 2019 22:34

Hi guys

This TD150 (AB) arrived yesterday, a bit ugly and dirty, but not too bad, I've seen much worse. The plan is to restore it over time and get it playing again. Basically, it has "good bones" and the plinth is in good nick.
IMG_5037.JPG
(225.3 KiB) Downloaded 107 times
It has a few issues that need to be addressed:-

1. The seller said it would need a new motor. It does work, spins in both directions and seems strong. However, the pulley and spindle are loose which I've never encountered before. I wonder if some ham-handed goose tried to remove the pulley and ripped it out?
fullsizeoutput_823.jpeg
(266.06 KiB) Downloaded 104 times
I'm not sure what to do here. The spindle is straight and there is no wobble, but clearly the tabs that mesh with the two flat spots cut into the spindle have broken. I'm guessing I'll need to pull the motor apart to see if the damage is permanent and what can be done to fix it. Worst case scenario is I have to get a new motor.

2. The clip at the base of the tonearm is missing. (S 808-218) Mmm, I don't like my chances of finding one so I'll have to think of some solution or try to make one.
IMG_5035.JPG
(298.79 KiB) Downloaded 101 times
3. From what I can gather from the user manual, the grey wire in this next pic has been switched, so basically, the 5.6K resistor isn't connected. Same goose?!
fullsizeoutput_827.jpeg
(333.33 KiB) Downloaded 102 times
OK, so the plan is to sort out the tonearm clip and motor first. I'll fix the wiring error and change the caps and resistor. I want to use this TP13 tonearm as they are better than a lot of people think once they are sorted and set up correctly. I'll also need to replace the RCA cables, get a lid made and source a 45 adaptor. The tonearm wires seem to be in good condition but I haven't tested them. If required, I'll make my own wires from OFC enamel coated motor winding wire.

On the plus side, the platter bearing is good, the oak arm-board is good, the speed change works well, the TP50 headshell is there and has a Pickering V15/AME-2 cart on it with a broken cantilever. The cart was totally dead on both channels, so, having nothing to lose, I gave it a squirt with some electrical board cleaner. It's now giving me a resistance reading from both channels, but I won't get too excited until I get a stylus for it and hear how it sounds.

Wish me luck!

oztayls
member
member
Posts: 108
Joined: 12 Dec 2017 08:04
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: TD150 Mk1 with issues and needing restoration

Post by oztayls » 17 Oct 2019 03:04

I pulled the motor apart and found that the bushings had naturally fallen off from the removal of the spindle, and were floating around inside the magnet. I put them back and reassembled the motor. Installed the new caps and resistor, but sadly the motor intermittently spins backward or won't start at all. Aaaarrgghh, one winding has clearly gone, the one responsible for the phase shifting. I was hoping it would be a the cap. So now I hunt for a new motor. If I don't find one, I'll have to get one of these: https://au.rs-online.com/web/p/products/4410423/
Not cheap, but have used them before in various other turntables and they are available locally.

oztayls
member
member
Posts: 108
Joined: 12 Dec 2017 08:04
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: TD150 Mk1 with issues and needing restoration

Post by oztayls » 17 Oct 2019 03:46

Hi Guys. Just adding up what this tt needs, ie. motor AU$160, power supply AU$80, dust cover AU$200, hinges AU$90, feet AU$40, cartridge and stylus AU$90, plus new cables.

I have sitting in storage a ProJect Debut Carbon. I can plunder its 15V motor, power supply and wall wart. It has a nice lid and great hinges, good feet, carbon tonearm with Ortofon Red cart, and I can even use its RCA connectors and RCA cable. Seeing as it will no longer be a stock table, I might as well use what I've got and go the whole hog and build a new plinth as well. Sometimes a solution isn't too far away :)

oztayls
member
member
Posts: 108
Joined: 12 Dec 2017 08:04
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: TD150 Mk1 with issues and needing restoration

Post by oztayls » 18 Oct 2019 03:59

Unfortunately, after measuring the motor speeds and the pulley sizes, I won't be able to use the ProJect motor as replacement. :(

The Thorens motor is a bit of an enigma in the world of turntable motors because it runs at 375rpm @50 Hz. Most of the replacement motors run at 250 or 300rpm, so making them incompatible with the pulley and sub-platter sizes. Bugga!

Trio KD1033
senior member
senior member
England
Posts: 347
Joined: 20 Oct 2015 00:18

Re: TD150 Mk1 with issues and needing restoration

Post by Trio KD1033 » 20 Oct 2019 19:10

Don't know if this will help, but I believe some people have used this motor:

https://www.dualfred.de/Tonearm-DIY-dri ... anguage=en

It's in Germany, so I don't know if that causes you any issues. The Thorens motor is 16 pole, hence the faster rotation speed. All the modern ones, Rega etc are 24 pole. This Dual motor is dc and so the speed is adjustable. According to the write up on the site it can be used with a Thorens. Worth a thought? If you get one be sure to let us know how you get on as I'll bet there are loads of people in your situation!

Andy

Edit: looks like it needs a 12v power supply and an external switch for speed change, not sure how straightforward that is.

oztayls
member
member
Posts: 108
Joined: 12 Dec 2017 08:04
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: TD150 Mk1 with issues and needing restoration

Post by oztayls » 20 Oct 2019 20:02

Hi Andy
That sounds perfect so I’ll look into it. It should be a simple fitup as well! I have heaps of 12v power supplies lying around too.

The 16 pole motors turn at 375 rpm, 24pole turn at 250rpm when used with 50hz, so that is the problem with the Thorens, otherwise there are lots of motor solutions for the brands that are geared for 250rpm.

I’ll let you know how I get on.

Trio KD1033
senior member
senior member
England
Posts: 347
Joined: 20 Oct 2015 00:18

Re: TD150 Mk1 with issues and needing restoration

Post by Trio KD1033 » 20 Oct 2019 20:06

oztayls wrote:
20 Oct 2019 20:02
Hi Andy
That sounds perfect so I’ll look into it. It should be a simple fitup as well! I have heaps of 12v power supplies lying around too.

The 16 pole motors turn at 375 rpm, 24pole turn at 250rpm when used with 50hz, so that is the problem with the Thorens, otherwise there are lots of motor solutions for the brands that are geared for 250rpm.

I’ll let you know how I get on.
Decent motors seem very hard to find at a reasonable price, unless you can use a 24 pole one then all is well! Good luck mate.

Andy

oztayls
member
member
Posts: 108
Joined: 12 Dec 2017 08:04
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: TD150 Mk1 with issues and needing restoration

Post by oztayls » 20 Oct 2019 20:11

Many thanks for that link. The problem with 24pole motors is the gearing. You need to make a drive pulley of the correct diameter. I can calculate that. If I knew how to do CAD and design it, I could get it 3D printed.

oztayls
member
member
Posts: 108
Joined: 12 Dec 2017 08:04
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: TD150 Mk1 with issues and needing restoration

Post by oztayls » 20 Oct 2019 22:48

I’ve since found a couple of Chinese 16pole/375rpm motors which are cheap too. I’ve ordered a couple but I’m guessing they will take 6 weeks or so to arrive. I’ll let you know how they work out. My only concern with them is whether they have enough torque. Oh, and they have 3mm spindles. I may just turn a quickie wooden pulley and use that for testing unless someone around here can scan the pulley and 3D print it for me.

Trio KD1033
senior member
senior member
England
Posts: 347
Joined: 20 Oct 2015 00:18

Re: TD150 Mk1 with issues and needing restoration

Post by Trio KD1033 » 20 Oct 2019 23:06

Interesting, 16 pole motors seem few and far between these days. Be very interesting to see what they are like.

A wooden pulley is a good idea for some experimentation.

Andy

oztayls
member
member
Posts: 108
Joined: 12 Dec 2017 08:04
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: TD150 Mk1 with issues and needing restoration

Post by oztayls » 20 Oct 2019 23:21

Trio KD1033 wrote:
20 Oct 2019 23:06

A wooden pulley is a good idea for some experimentation.

Andy
Yes, saves ruining an alloy pulley by drilling it out to 3mm!

oztayls
member
member
Posts: 108
Joined: 12 Dec 2017 08:04
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: TD150 Mk1 with issues and needing restoration

Post by oztayls » 20 Oct 2019 23:26

I wonder if the Origin Live DC200 is the same motor as the Dual DC200? It looks VERY similar.

Trio KD1033
senior member
senior member
England
Posts: 347
Joined: 20 Oct 2015 00:18

Re: TD150 Mk1 with issues and needing restoration

Post by Trio KD1033 » 21 Oct 2019 00:54

oztayls wrote:
20 Oct 2019 23:26
I wonder if the Origin Live DC200 is the same motor as the Dual DC200? It looks VERY similar.
It really does, doesn't it? Not quite the same price though!

Andy

oztayls
member
member
Posts: 108
Joined: 12 Dec 2017 08:04
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: TD150 Mk1 with issues and needing restoration

Post by oztayls » 21 Oct 2019 01:02

Trio KD1033 wrote:
21 Oct 2019 00:54
oztayls wrote:
20 Oct 2019 23:26
I wonder if the Origin Live DC200 is the same motor as the Dual DC200? It looks VERY similar.
It really does, doesn't it? Not quite the same price though!

Andy
The HiFi industry is nuts, and even if it's not the same motor, there will be a massive mark-up of 1000s of a percent by OL. I wrote to DualFred to find out what's involved in fitting. In the meantime, a TD150 motor has popped up and I'm talking with the seller. Not exactly cheap, but cheaper than most have been lately. Will see what pans out...

62vauxhall
senior member
senior member
Posts: 684
Joined: 22 May 2008 19:57
Location: Surrey, BC

Re: TD150 Mk1 with issues and needing restoration

Post by 62vauxhall » 21 Oct 2019 01:38

Such lengths. Way more tenacity than I’ve got. And I do like a challenge providing the end result is worth the time and expense.

Post Reply