Replacement motor was squealing and is now quiet

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DarthMaul
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Replacement motor was squealing and is now quiet

Post by DarthMaul » 16 Jun 2019 00:07

Ok.

I replaced the motor for my Thorens TD126 MK III. Problem is, the replacement motor squeals the same way the old one originally did when I first got the turntable, but only when the belt is off. Gave it one short squirt of a Thorens oil I bought on eBay that is 100% synthetic, on both ends, in hopes it will help the motor. No more than one application on the top end, two on the bottom. I felt that was enough, and I was not going to overdo it. This oil is said to not gum up and become sticky. It's not Petroleum-based. I also used it on the subplatter's bearing. Unlike the old motor, this one is a 1978 one with the bottom bearing exposed. When the belt is on, it's quiet at 33rpm. The speed seems to have stabilized. Unlike with the old motor, I do not believe that I will have issues with the turntable suddenly slowing down to the point I can't get records to play at a good speed. There won't be issues of the motor slipping down, so I should be safe regarding this considering the rubber mount is not warped.

The oil is this liquid:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Synthe ... 2749.l2649

I went for that stuff as I cannot find the Joel kits. Thought it might be better for the motor than 3-in-1 or other oils. It's able to withstand up to 500 degrees F.

By the way, I noticed the motor was sitting at an angle in the rubber mount, so I opened up the turntable and pressed against the bottom of the motor to level it more. I did not do anything else inside and put the bottom cover back on. The motor looks level against the nearby wood side of the deck, as seen by looking at the pulley.

Edit:
Just checked again without the belt on. Motor's quiet all of a sudden. Never got the old motor to quieten that fast. Could the Slick Liquid have done the trick?

DarthMaul
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Re: Replacement motor was squealing and is now quiet

Post by DarthMaul » 16 Jun 2019 02:00

Update: Ran the turntable for around an hour or so. No speed fluctuation issues. No smell coming from the motor. Speeds up gradually over the past hour but that's all.

DarthMaul
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Re: Replacement motor squealing off and on

Post by DarthMaul » 16 Jun 2019 04:18

Update:

Okay. Well, obviously that last update was wrong. The motor squeals without the belt off and on. Always varying between squealing, being merely noisy, and being quiet. Performance levels with the Thakker belt have been good so far, however. The motor is great enough to not be causing speed issues. No slowdowns even after an hour-long test run. No heat from the motor either. There's got to be a way to permanently stop the squealing, but if I keep the belt on, it will never occur.

I've got WD-40 Specialist Electrical Contact cleaner. Is this the right cleaner to flush out the motor? There's three openings: The top, the bottom (shaft is exposed) and where the power wires come from. Also, I wonder if the Slick Liquid oil I used might eventually flush out the old oil?

DarthMaul
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Re: Replacement motor was squealing and is now quiet

Post by DarthMaul » 16 Jun 2019 15:48

Is CRC Lectra-Motive safe for use on this motor? Or should I use the Caig equivalent?

DarthMaul
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Re: Replacement motor squealing off and on

Post by DarthMaul » 16 Jun 2019 17:07

DarthMaul wrote:
16 Jun 2019 04:18
Update:

Okay. Well, obviously that last update was wrong. The motor squeals without the belt off and on. Always varying between squealing, being merely noisy, and being quiet. Performance levels with the Thakker belt have been good so far, however. The motor is great enough to not be causing speed issues. No slowdowns even after an hour-long test run. No heat from the motor either. There's got to be a way to permanently stop the squealing, but if I keep the belt on, it will never occur.

I've got WD-40 Specialist Electrical Contact cleaner. Is this the right cleaner to flush out the motor? There's three openings: The top, the bottom (shaft is exposed) and where the power wires come from. Also, I wonder if the Slick Liquid oil I used might eventually flush out the old oil?
Managed to stop the squealing again. Hope it doesn't come back. Not adding any more oil. Fortunately I'm glad this one does not gum up moving parts.

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Re: Replacement motor was squealing and is now quiet

Post by DarthMaul » 17 Jun 2019 01:58

Checked the motor after getting the turntable back into the library. Still no squeal. I'm a happy camper. No more oil applications for this motor. Didn't give it any heavy lubrication, although it wasn't merely one drop on each end. It needed more than that. I also think that since the turntable had been laying on its front, some of the oil didn't go into the bearing at the bottom. I have faith that the motor will not get gummed up.

Maybe since I know the old motor is useless in terms of usability, maybe at some point I could open it up to see what it looks like on the inside? Would be interesting to see. I can't use it since it has trouble starting even with a battery. No point in keeping it as a spare. And the third motor... A metal clip with a soldered wire attached broke loose from the tachometer connections. Won't be able to use it in the future if needed. Since the seller said it didn't turn well, that further prevents me from using it. My old motor is able to get to higher speeds than it can, but can't spin backwards as fast. (These motors aren't supposed to, right?)

H. callahan
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Re: Replacement motor was squealing and is now quiet

Post by H. callahan » 17 Jun 2019 03:55

No idea or experience about this motor, but from cassette-decks i know that there are sintered bearings which need a special synthetic oil.
Found out by giving the capstan normal sewing machine oil and it made things worse. The capstan sounded like a little jackhammer and givign more oil didn´t help (only for a few minutes). Flushing it out and using special oil for sintered bearings did the trick.

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Re: Replacement motor was squealing and is now quiet

Post by DarthMaul » 17 Jun 2019 04:14

Do you know where I can get this oil?

This is the product I am using:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Synthe ... 2749.l2649

It's still better than Petroleum-based oils, and better than many synthetic oils, as it leaves no sticky residue behind and is not a dust magnet.

Can somebody with knowledge about the TD126 MK III motor tell me what kind of bearings it has? What kind of synthetic oil does it need? Please advise if the oil I sent the link to is the correct oil or if the one below is:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lube-V-Synthet ... rEbRtiMFjg

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Re: Replacement motor was squealing and is now quiet

Post by DarthMaul » 17 Jun 2019 22:11

Ok,

Well, the motor once again squeals if it has no belt. With the belt on, it's dead quiet on 33rpm and almost noiseless on 45rpm. Minor noise on 78rpm. This is with the Thakker belt, which is better than my original belt. I'd prefer that it doesn't squeal at all, but I will keep the belt on it to stop the squeal from happening. Does this motor need oil for bronze sintered bearings?

H. callahan
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Re: Replacement motor was squealing and is now quiet

Post by H. callahan » 18 Jun 2019 04:55

On the bottle i have it does say "Isoflex PDP65", i bought it from ebay from a seller of tape-machine-stuff.

Now the tape-deck i used this oil with does run the capstan all the time. When you switch on the deck, the capstan will turn - and this was when i got the "little jackhammer". When pushing the play-button the pinch-roller is pressed against the capstan which did reduce the jackhammer-noise a lot, but with the capstan turning freely it came back.
Seems to be similar with your motor and belt on/off.

In case you don´t know about sintered bearings google it, how they are constructed and how they are supposed to work - and then try to look at the bearing with a loupe. If the metal, the motor shaft rests in, isn´t solid but has little cavities it should be a sintered bearing which can benefit from special oil for sintered bearings.

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Re: Replacement motor was squealing and is now quiet

Post by DarthMaul » 18 Jun 2019 13:24

The motor cannot be disassembled, unfortunately. Not able to open it or see its bearing’s makeup. I need someone else to chime in.

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Re: Replacement motor was squealing and is now quiet

Post by H. callahan » 19 Jun 2019 02:25

How can you oil it then?

DarthMaul
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Re: Replacement motor was squealing and is now quiet

Post by DarthMaul » 19 Jun 2019 02:32

The only way to get oil into the motor is through the top bearing and the bottom bearing. The bottom bearing is exposed, unlike my old motor, and has a larger opening due to the tachometer seated there. The seller of the Slick Liquid I bought told me it can be used on this motor. He suspected bushing wear causing the squealing. It only squeals if it comes into contact with one side of the bushing. The Thakker belt keeps the shaft from coming in contact with the surface that causes squealing.

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Re: Replacement motor was squealing and is now quiet

Post by DarthMaul » 19 Jun 2019 21:17

H. callahan,

The motor does not squeal with the belt on if at 33rpm or 45rpm. It stays dead quiet. If on 78rpm, it starts out quiet, however, if left running at that speed, a squeal can happen. Might be the bearing causing this. As I use this only for albums primarily, and sometimes 45s, but not 78s, the motor will not squeal in regular use. As long as that does not happen, I'm fine. Speed has stayed stable during playback, but I must wait with the strobe staying still for an extended period of time before beginning play. The capacitors might be responsible, but I'm not certain. A long delay before the speed stabilizes isn't the motor's fault.

By the way, last night I put more oil in the subplatter's bearing, so much that the subplatter sunk slowly into it. I placed several lens cloths under near the bearing to soak up any spillage. Seemed to have helped the motor drive the platter easier. I just need to make sure I take good care of the motor so it stays in its current condition.

There is one other thing. The plastic pulley doesn't spin 100% true. Around 99%. It has a slight wobble to it. Should I leave it alone since it doesn't affect playback audibly? Or should I attempt to straighten it with heat to help? Thinking the former. Don't want to risk damaging or breaking the spokes.

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Re: Replacement motor was squealing and is now quiet

Post by DarthMaul » 20 Jun 2019 00:07

Before I finish this box set, or after it's done, I am going to do something regarding the motor, without doing anything to it. It is not level in the forwards and backwards direction with my current setup, but the platter is. I can modify this by turning the black plastic cups near the front counterclockwise until they allow the platter to become level with the motor. A minor modification, but might help it in the long run even further and get it running even better perhaps. That may be all I can do for now. Not going to add any more oil to the motor, so it doesn't get overfilled with it.

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