Thorens TD145 - Speaker cones move back and forth

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Alec124c41
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Re: THORENS TD145 - Speaker cones move back and forth

Post by Alec124c41 » 24 Jan 2019 14:17

Put something between the top of the cabinet and the marble plate. A folded towel, small rug or mat, sponges, rubber shelf/drawer liner - something to absorb vibrations.

Cheers,
Alec

1770_ron
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Re: THORENS TD145 - Speaker cones move back and forth

Post by 1770_ron » 25 Jan 2019 00:43

You need an effective subsonic filter. What you are seeing is not particularly uncommon when playing phonograph records. The cone-moving is caused by extremely low-frequency pulses, below 20 hz, arising from resonances created by the interaction between a specific tonearm/cartridge combination, as well as subsonic resonances arising from playing imperfect records (warped or off-center pressings) and various kinds of airborne acoustic feedback.

During the late '70s and 1980s, most receivers and amplifiers incorporated a really good subsonic filter for use with phono playback. I don't know if today's phono preamps incorporate a proper subsonic filter to eliminate those below-20-hz resonances.
fongio wrote:
12 Jan 2019 14:56
Hi all,When I play any 33 record on my Thorens TD145 the speaker cones move back and forth quite extensively/abnormally. This is worrying me as I am afraid to damage the speakers :( .
This problem does not happen when playing any other support i.e. CDs, cassettes, radio etc.
Any advice on what could be the problem? Thanks in advance. Fongio

fongio
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Re: THORENS TD145 - Speaker cones move back and forth

Post by fongio » 25 Jan 2019 08:15

Hi,
as Alec suggested I put a think piece of foam between the Marble plate and the cupboard. Practically...no improvement. :(
I also removed the cover as previously advised by Alec. No improvements. I attach a couple of pictures.

As said I ordered from Europe an Harrison FMODS. Hope it will get here sometime. I will test with that device and report here the results.

I will also try to switch to the other Cartridge AT95SA and see.

WOW. Can't believe it's so hard to overcome that problem.

I thank you all again.
Cheers
Giorgio
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Thorens TD 145 marble-foam 02.jpg
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abs1
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Re: THORENS TD145 - Speaker cones move back and forth

Post by abs1 » 25 Jan 2019 15:28

That lower photo - is the entire table off kilter or is it an optical illusion that I'm seeing?

Al

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Re: THORENS TD145 - Speaker cones move back and forth

Post by terry-a » 25 Jan 2019 15:37

abs1 wrote:
25 Jan 2019 15:28
That lower photo - is the entire table off kilter or is it an optical illusion that I'm seeing?

Al
I'm not sure what I'm seeing but it may be that the suspension is not properly adjusted. Not only does it look off kilter but the platter looks rather high. Could be an illusion but worth looking into.

Sunwire
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Re: THORENS TD145 - Speaker cones move back and forth

Post by Sunwire » 25 Jan 2019 17:13

What is the make and model of your receiver?
Does it have a low filter switch?
If so, turn it on.

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Re: THORENS TD145 - Speaker cones move back and forth

Post by Sunwire » 25 Jan 2019 17:22

I would remove the foam and marble.
First, you need to be sure the turntable suspension is adjusted properly.
Here is a tutorial on how to do this:
http://theanalogdept.com/susp_tim_bailey.htm

A little more information here:
viewtopic.php?p=94615&sid=a69987d982163 ... 70809e4739

Alec124c41
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Re: THORENS TD145 - Speaker cones move back and forth

Post by Alec124c41 » 25 Jan 2019 17:27

The Thorens turntable has 3 springs to suspend the subchassis, and isolate the works from vibrations, There may also be transport screws, whose function is to hold the subchassis so that it does not bounce around in transport.
First, check that the transport screws are removed. Then, adjust the suspension so that you have 5mm clearance, all around the platter.
TD-145 manuals: https://www.vinylengine.com/library/thorens/td145.shtml

Cheers,
Alec

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Re: THORENS TD145 - Speaker cones move back and forth

Post by noisefreq » 25 Jan 2019 19:30

Before you spend $ on a record weight, consider a different cartridge.
The high compliant M95ED is not a good match with the TP16 tonearm.
You need something a little stiffer.
Second, you need a wall shelf for better isolation.
Lastly, research suspension tuning for the Thorens.

doctor fuse
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Re: THORENS TD145 - Speaker cones move back and forth

Post by doctor fuse » 26 Jan 2019 00:26

Here in North America, there is a blue putty made for sticking posters to the wall, called "Blutac". If you can find something like this (generic stuff I have seen comes in pink, here in Canada), roll four small balls, and put four under the feet of the 145 onto the marble base, and also roll four larger balls to put under the marble between it and the cupboard. It might leave a faint mark on the cupboard, so use at your own risk.
I have had good luck using it with turntables and speakers.
Good luck!
PS. Do you know if your 145 is the mkI or a later model?

fongio
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Re: THORENS TD145 - Speaker cones move back and forth

Post by fongio » 26 Jan 2019 10:24

Hi,
Thanks so much for all your precious advices. The TT is connected to a PIONEER A9 amplifier. I also have a PIONEER QX949 that I use for my Revox A77 and the Aiwa AD-WX929 cassette deck.

I am not sure if the TD145 is MKI or MKII 🙄. Feel embarrassed 😳.

I will adjust the springs as recommended having a look at the links provided.

Not sure I can find the putty here. But will look into this too.

I will also change the M95ED and hopefully all will be fine.

I'll keep you posted.
Cheers Giorgio

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Re: THORENS TD145 - Speaker cones move back and forth

Post by tlscapital » 26 Jan 2019 11:03

Hi Giorgio, yours is the MK II with the medium mass tonearm. I believe that 'Alec124c41' is likely right again with his analysis of your table suspension; eye of the Tiger; your platter is way to high.

Likely the 2 lateral on and in the plinth "security" screws are still locking the suspension and coupling the sub-chassis to the chassis as if it was still boxed. Do you have any platter and tonearm suspension ?

If you do, then with a level check if your cupboard is leveled. Then check your top plate level and when at least you've managed to level your turntable top plate, correct your suspension the turntable base off.

You need to have the patter leveled with a 5 to 7 mm gap between the platter and the top plate. Put it back in place, on the marble and foam base and check for some bounce, change of cart and hear what happens...

doctor fuse
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Re: THORENS TD145 - Speaker cones move back and forth

Post by doctor fuse » 26 Jan 2019 16:38

I missed the photos somehow. Isn't that a Mk I, tls?

To my eye the platter and arm board look pretty much the same height as my 145. But good advice above about fine tuning the suspension.

Good luck - these tables are finicky about setup but once they are stable and tuned up, they really sing!

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Re: THORENS TD145 - Speaker cones move back and forth

Post by tlscapital » 26 Jan 2019 17:21

doctor fuse wrote:
26 Jan 2019 16:38
I missed the photos somehow. Isn't that a Mk I, tls?

To my eye the platter and arm board look pretty much the same height as my 145. But good advice above about fine tuning the suspension.

Good luck - these tables are finicky about setup but once they are stable and tuned up, they really sing!
You're right, I implied MKI evidently with the medium effective mass tonearm at 16.5 grams. The MKII is light effective mass with 7.5 grams. Sorry if I tired any confusion here. But correction of posts need to be done quick nowadays :wink: Too late now.

TP16(MKI)
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TP16MKII
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His plater to top plate gap seems to fetch 1cm+ which is way too high and if it's only the suspension pushing it up that high, it's not right. As is his platter will act more as a trampoline than a suspended sub-chassis and cause tracking issues for sure.

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Re: THORENS TD145 - Speaker cones move back and forth

Post by Sunwire » 26 Jan 2019 18:43

The Pioneer A9 amplifier has a Subsonic 15 Hz filter switch.
I recommend you turn on this filter when playing records. See if that stops the speaker cones from moving so much.

Adjusting the turntable suspension is still a very good idea.