TD 150 motor disassembly

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neatneatneat
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TD 150 motor disassembly

Post by neatneatneat » 13 Jul 2018 09:37

I'm restoring a TD 150 which has been full of "surprises" so far :)

The most recent being that the motor does not start properly, it needs Help to get up to speed and sometimes starts in the wrong direction. Replacing the caps did not Help and now I have discovered that one of the windings is open. As a last resort I have opened up the motor to see if it can be fixed.

Opening the motor by drilling out the spacers was no problem, but then there is a plate that needs to be removed to get to the winding. Not sure how remove it without breaking/bending it. Hopefully you can see how it is attached to the motor in these images:
IMG_1574.JPG
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IMG_1575.JPG
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Any ideas? Let me know!

neatneatneat
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Re: TD 150 motor disassembly

Post by neatneatneat » 13 Jul 2018 09:39

(Here is an example where someone has successfully gotten it apart, but I don't know how)

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... 15#p824467

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Re: TD 150 motor disassembly

Post by user510 » 13 Jul 2018 20:10

neatneatneat wrote:I'm restoring a TD 150 which has been full of "surprises" so far :)

The most recent being that the motor does not start properly, it needs Help to get up to speed and sometimes starts in the wrong direction. Replacing the caps did not Help and now I have discovered that one of the windings is open. As a last resort I have opened up the motor to see if it can be fixed.

Opening the motor by drilling out the spacers was no problem, but then there is a plate that needs to be removed to get to the winding. Not sure how remove it without breaking/bending it. Hopefully you can see how it is attached to the motor in these images:
IMG_1574.JPG
IMG_1575.JPG
Any ideas? Let me know!
I personally have yet to crack one of these open but I have one candidate available for surgery...plus several years ago a reader in Italy sent in a series of photos he took of a successful operation he made on his TD160 motor. Here's a link to that page:
http://www.theanalogdept.com/bogdans_motor.htm
http://www.theanalogdept.com/images/spp ... 60mo_2.jpg
This is not the same motor as those that went into the Td150 but one expects to find similarities between them.

-Steve

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Re: TD 150 motor disassembly

Post by neatneatneat » 14 Jul 2018 09:07

Thanks for the link Steve!

The TD 160 motor might be a simpler job. Looks like once the spacers are removed everything is accessible.

The only solution I can come up with is drilling out the three "tabs" that hold the platter in place, and then use epoxy to fasten them during re-assembly.

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Re: TD 150 motor disassembly

Post by user510 » 15 Jul 2018 22:51

neatneatneat wrote:Thanks for the link Steve!

The TD 160 motor might be a simpler job. Looks like once the spacers are removed everything is accessible.

The only solution I can come up with is drilling out the three "tabs" that hold the platter in place, and then use epoxy to fasten them during re-assembly.
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... =49388&t=1
Your photo above. It appears that the upper case employs a circular array of tabs that mesh perfectly with the slots in the flange. My guess is that these are not held with glue, but with a very precise fit that involves a small amount of "press". So the task is to separate the flange from the upper case by a very careful use of force. I would be tempted to use very small flat bladed screw drivers to see if it is possible to lever the two pieces apart.

As to reassembly, one can drill out the rivet holes and replace rivets with bolts and nuts where the body of the bolt is a close fit to the old rivet hole.

-Steve

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Re: TD 150 motor disassembly

Post by neatneatneat » 16 Jul 2018 09:52

I've tried to lever them with a screwdriver but the tabs seem to be stuck pretty good. The are "stamped" in place if you take look at the other side of the flange where they come out:
IMG_1645.JPG
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medwaybeat
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Re: TD 150 motor disassembly

Post by medwaybeat » 16 Jul 2018 10:09

You will need to file or grind the tops off.

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Re: TD 150 motor disassembly

Post by neatneatneat » 16 Jul 2018 10:44

Got it apart finally :)

Prying with a thin screwdriver right next to the tabs did not work. But with some distance between the screwdriver and the tab there was a bit of leverage, and they snapped out quite easily.

Now to see if I can find aything wrong with the winding...

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Re: TD 150 motor disassembly

Post by neatneatneat » 17 Jul 2018 14:24

This seems like a dead end unfortunatey. After removing a piece of really sticky tape I can see that the cables are attached to the winding wires ok. My hope was that something had come loose there and could be soldered back in place. My conclution is that something inside the wiring is burnt/broken, and that is something I am not capable of repairing.

The turntable actually lacked the protection cap across the switch, so it's not very strange if the motor has become damaged.

Anyways I'll leave some images of the windings and cables for future reference. And of course if someone has any tricks that I can try let my know. Otherwise I'll start looking for a replacement motor.
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Re: TD 150 motor disassembly

Post by medwaybeat » 18 Jul 2018 15:41

You could try talking to a motor re-winder and see if they can rewind it.
Never had a TT motor re-wound but have had others done and I was amazed at cost effective/cheap it was.
You could unwind / repair it yourself. Bodge a bobbin onto the chuck of a hand drill unwind until you find the brake, scrape the enamel off the wires. Solder and the lacquer the repair and then wind it back on. I've done this with a couple of inductors which was fun.

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Re: TD 150 motor disassembly

Post by neatneatneat » 18 Jul 2018 22:59

Ok, thanks! What lacquer can be used for this?

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Re: TD 150 motor disassembly

Post by medwaybeat » 19 Jul 2018 08:07


user510
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Re: TD 150 motor disassembly

Post by user510 » 20 Jul 2018 23:09

This is potentially a great thread because it addresses the idea of repairs to and re-manufacturing of these precious little obsolete motors.

Not only can we restore a motor to 'like new' condition, we could also modify its torque and power outputs simply by altering the winding.

Unfortunately I have nothing to contribute in such a thread.... so far. However, as I mentioned above I do have a candidate for repairs. A TD150 came to me from the UK with a motor that, while running, has wiped out its thrust bearing. I'll look into replacing bushings and thrusts and perhaps study up on motor design to get a handle on motor re-winding.

Finding different gages of magnet wire (the wire used in the windings) should be, hopefully, not a problem.

So, if we are going to take a primer on AC motor design where do we start....? Faraday? Any electronics engineers lurking about this forum?

-Steve

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Re: TD 150 motor disassembly

Post by neatneatneat » 28 Jul 2018 20:22

I think I'll give this a go. I have a hand drill but I need to find some suitable laquer first.

BUT: When I removed the insulating tape the cable coming from the inside of the winding broke off. So I'm going to have to re-wire everything to get hold of it. Is that even doable or will it take forever? And how important is it to get the winding in even layers (seems a little tricky using a hand drill and a bobbin)?

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Re: TD 150 motor disassembly

Post by medwaybeat » 01 Aug 2018 13:19

I doubt it would take that long to unwind and you could practice getting it neat at the same time.

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