the home of the turntable

Help please - Salora Stereo 2001 with Thorens TD-160

music box

Help please - Salora Stereo 2001 with Thorens TD-160

Postby fozzyrfc » 13 Feb 2018 12:25

Hi everyone
I'm looking for some assistance and I hope you don't mind a real novice coming on here for advice. I have read a lot of posts on here and on another forum but I still don't really know what I'm doing and I don't want to guess/break something, and neither do I want to spend out on parts which may be useless.

Here's the issue : my daughter inherited a Salora Stereo 2001 with a Thorens TD-160 deck built in. It all worked and has played fine for months.

These last couple of weeks, any record played has skated towards the centre - i.e. the tonearm lowers, looks to start and then almost immediately skates across the whole record. The stylus looks intact.

Here's what I've read and tried :
I have tried all combinations of balancing / anti skating as per the original manual - nothing seems to make a difference. I do not know the force recommended by the stylus manufacturer but again nothing seems to make any difference.

A forum suggested that some wires at the back of the tonearm may be dragging/pulling it/giving it force? > no, have looked and don't think so, all seem to have enough movement

There was another suggestion about seeing if the tonearm moves by itself?
So... if I set the If I rest the tonearm with the position lowered (i.e ready to play), with no record on the deck (for safety!) (and the balancing a bit light set so that the tonearm has freedom to move above the platter), then if I manually move the tonearm towards the spindle, it will NOT rest there, it wants to navigate back to towards the OUTSIDE by itself i.e. it drifts AWAY from center (which is the opposite to the skating issue...) - maybe that's normal?

I read the posts on here and I realise that you guys are talking in terms I really don't understand and I could really do with an easy guide (if there is such a thing?!) to fixing this.

In summary :
Stylus looks intact - probably needs replacing but I'm sure it's not the issue
I have tried all combinations of heavy to light balancing - still same issue
Stylus navigates towards centre when trying to play
Tonearm will not rest by itself in test mode - and moves outwards.

There are a couple of pics attached which show the model etc. I am aware the stylus is not attached in them, I removed it to test the tonearm movement over the platter and didn't want to damage it.

Thanks in advance and sorry if I'm not up to speed enough to follow everything.


I also have a supplementary question on platter startup speed but maybe we'll fix this first if poss :-)

Cheers all :-)
Attachments
IMG_1088.JPG
IMG_1087.JPG
fozzyrfc
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 6
Joined: 24 Apr 2016 18:49

United Kingdom

Re: Help please - Salora Stereo 2001 with Thorens TD-160

Postby Japi Roelofs » 13 Feb 2018 13:14

Hi and welcome to the forum

the issue you talk about just started a couple of weeks ago, right?

fozzyrfc wrote:It all worked and has played fine for months.

These last couple of weeks, any record played has skated towards the centre - i.e. the tonearm lowers, looks to start and then almost immediately skates across the whole record.


Can we assume no adjustments to the turntable have been made, prior to the 'tonearm skates towards centre' thing? So this kind of happened 'overnight'?

fozzyrfc wrote:The stylus looks intact.


Stylus suddenly skating towards centre almost always indicates a broken stylus. How did you inspect the stylus? Most styli have a diamond tip, attached to a metal stub. The diamond tip can break off, leaving only the stub. If the stub is still present, it might look like the stylus is intact, while in fact it is not. To properly examine the stylus you need strong magnification.


fozzyrfc wrote:There was another suggestion about seeing if the tonearm moves by itself?
So... if I set the If I rest the tonearm with the position lowered (i.e ready to play), with no record on the deck (for safety!) (and the balancing a bit light set so that the tonearm has freedom to move above the platter), then if I manually move the tonearm towards the spindle, it will NOT rest there, it wants to navigate back to towards the OUTSIDE by itself i.e. it drifts AWAY from center (which is the opposite to the skating issue...) - maybe that's normal?


Did you disengage the anti-skating? With no anti-skating applied, a bit of 'outward drift' is no big deal. Levelling the turntable might Help with this issue. To check if anti-skating works properly, observe the speed with which the tonearm moves towards the arm rest. When you increase the anti-skating, the arm should move faster.

BTW what cartridge is on it?
Japi Roelofs
long player
long player
contributor
 
Posts: 4086
Images: 20
Joined: 05 Apr 2008 16:53
Location: Netherlands

Netherlands

Re: Help please - Salora Stereo 2001 with Thorens TD-160

Postby fozzyrfc » 13 Feb 2018 13:38

Japi Roelofs wrote:Hi and welcome to the forum

the issue you talk about just started a couple of weeks ago, right?


Thanks - yes that's correct

Japi Roelofs wrote:Can we assume no adjustments to the turntable have been made, prior to the 'tonearm skates towards centre' thing? So this kind of happened 'overnight'?

Stylus suddenly skating towards centre almost always indicates a broken stylus. How did you inspect the stylus? Most styli have a diamond tip, attached to a metal stub. The diamond tip can break off, leaving only the stub. If the stub is still present, it might look like the stylus is intact, while in fact it is not. To properly examine the stylus you need strong magnification.

No adjustments, daughter has moved house but the unit has worked ok since the move hence i ruled out transport issues
OK thanks - then that may be the issue

Japi Roelofs wrote:Did you disengage the anti-skating? With no anti-skating applied, a bit of 'outward drift' is no big deal. Levelling the turntable might Help with this issue. To check if anti-skating works properly, observe the speed with which the tonearm moves towards the arm rest. When you increase the anti-skating, the arm should move faster.

BTW what cartridge is on it?


Anti-skating - sorry, not sure. I'm a bit confused about which bit is which. the anti-skating is the 0-4 bit on the r/hand side, yes? So that needs to be set at 0 on the very right to test?

With balancing, I tried to follow the manual on the weight and the wheel thing but ended up thinking it was guess work really. I didn't know where to start properly. The stylus is a (probably) very old goldring which I accept would need replacing anyway.


So, sorry, I could really do with :
1. A guide to the arm balancing, the force on the wheel and also the anti-skating. It's not sinking in reading the manual and a better explanation would be really appreciated.
2. To know which stylus to buy - I know this is going to sound a bit crass but I'm not looking at hundreds of pounds on this because we just can't afford it. Could I please have a guide to what to look for i.e. model number and then I can see price range etc for ones which would fit?

Really appreciate the Help, thanks
fozzyrfc
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 6
Joined: 24 Apr 2016 18:49

United Kingdom

Re: Help please - Salora Stereo 2001 with Thorens TD-160

Postby medwaybeat » 13 Feb 2018 13:51

Hello,
A new cartridge does not have be expensive an Audio-Technica AT95E will cost less than £40.
And the Salora looks like a fantastic bit of kit.
medwaybeat
member
member
 
Posts: 88
Images: 2
Joined: 17 Mar 2016 15:06

United Kingdom

Re: Help please - Salora Stereo 2001 with Thorens TD-160

Postby Japi Roelofs » 13 Feb 2018 13:57

Here's how to balance the arm, and set tracking force:

1) set anti-skating to '0'
2) move the stylus pressure wheel to '0' (the small black wheel with numbers on it)
3) lower the arm lifter, bring the tonearm over the platter, and move the counterweight backwards or forwards, until the arm is floating horizontally, with the stylus hovering just above the turntable mat. Secure the counterweight with the set screw

You now have balanced the tonearm, so you have 'zero' tracking force. To set the tracking force, you will need to know what amount of force is needed for your particular cartridge. If it needs 2 grams, rotate the stylus pressure wheel until the number 2 faces the front.

I can't tell you what stylus you need unless the cartridge type is known. Can you maybe post a picture of the cartridge?
Japi Roelofs
long player
long player
contributor
 
Posts: 4086
Images: 20
Joined: 05 Apr 2008 16:53
Location: Netherlands

Netherlands

Re: Help please - Salora Stereo 2001 with Thorens TD-160

Postby fozzyrfc » 13 Feb 2018 18:21

Japi Roelofs wrote:Here's how to balance the arm, and set tracking force:

1) set anti-skating to '0'
2) move the stylus pressure wheel to '0' (the small black wheel with numbers on it)
3) lower the arm lifter, bring the tonearm over the platter, and move the counterweight backwards or forwards, until the arm is floating horizontally, with the stylus hovering just above the turntable mat. Secure the counterweight with the set screw

You now have balanced the tonearm, so you have 'zero' tracking force. To set the tracking force, you will need to know what amount of force is needed for your particular cartridge. If it needs 2 grams, rotate the stylus pressure wheel until the number 2 faces the front.

I can't tell you what stylus you need unless the cartridge type is known. Can you maybe post a picture of the cartridge?


medwaybeat wrote:Hello,
A new cartridge does not have be expensive an Audio-Technica AT95E will cost less than £40.
And the Salora looks like a fantastic bit of kit.


thank you both for your posts and Help. I have scrolled back to some pictures my daughter took when she first got the unit - this may Help identify the cartridge.

Thank you

(Speed / startup question still coming..... :) )
Attachments
IMG_1090.JPG
IMG_1089.JPG
fozzyrfc
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 6
Joined: 24 Apr 2016 18:49

United Kingdom

Re: Help please - Salora Stereo 2001 with Thorens TD-160

Postby Chiltern » 13 Feb 2018 19:27

Goldring G800
Chiltern
long player
long player
contributor
 
Posts: 1001
Images: 194
Joined: 11 Apr 2008 11:12
Location: West Country, England

England

Re: Help please - Salora Stereo 2001 with Thorens TD-160

Postby tlscapital » 13 Feb 2018 21:07

Jico (Japan Brand) stylus are a safe and good replacement bet and Thakker (Germany) on line carries them Goldring 'G 800' stylus for decent a price IMO...
tlscapital
long player
long player
 
Posts: 1319
Images: 6
Joined: 27 Sep 2015 14:27
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Belgium

Re: Help please - Salora Stereo 2001 with Thorens TD-160

Postby Tim70_99 » 14 Feb 2018 01:47

There have been quite a lot of NOS G800 and G800E styli on Ebay of late, The Stylus Lady had some and I bought one a few weeks ago. I haven't put the cartridge into a Thorens shell yet but thats coming soon. Unless you are like me and want the original you would probably be safer to go with the advice given by tiscapital and have a look at Thakker or Jico replacement because NOS styli may be degraded and won't perform at their best. Good luck :-)
Tim70_99
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 337
Images: 61
Joined: 11 Oct 2011 10:43
Location: Swanage UK

United Kingdom

Re: Help please - Salora Stereo 2001 with Thorens TD-160

Postby tlscapital » 14 Feb 2018 07:56

What I meant is that Thakker carries them Jico generic replacement stylus without the issue of ordering from Japan (shipping costs and import custom fees) for a price still most reasonable price wise and a product that in comparison sometimes outperforms the original brand stylus...
tlscapital
long player
long player
 
Posts: 1319
Images: 6
Joined: 27 Sep 2015 14:27
Location: Brussels, Belgium

Belgium

Re: Help please - Salora Stereo 2001 with Thorens TD-160

Postby Japi Roelofs » 14 Feb 2018 12:52

Yes Thakker is recommended, good service and reasonable prices.

They sell two different styli for the Goldring G800, one spherical for €22.50 and one elliptical for €27.30. I would get the elliptical, it is just a couple of euros more and should sound a bit better.
https://www.thakker.eu/en/needles/d-110-e-stylus-for-goldring-g-800-e-generic-stylus/a-5389/

Thakker also sell good quality drive belts for Thorens. I have ordered them before and they work just fine.
https://www.thakker.eu/en/belts/turntables/thorens-td-160-original-thakker-belt/a-4589/
Japi Roelofs
long player
long player
contributor
 
Posts: 4086
Images: 20
Joined: 05 Apr 2008 16:53
Location: Netherlands

Netherlands

Re: Help please - Salora Stereo 2001 with Thorens TD-160

Postby fozzyrfc » 14 Feb 2018 13:08

Japi Roelofs wrote:Yes Thakker is recommended, good service and reasonable prices.

They sell two different styli for the Goldring G800, one spherical for €22.50 and one elliptical for €27.30. I would get the elliptical, it is just a couple of euros more and should sound a bit better.
https://www.thakker.eu/en/needles/d-110-e-stylus-for-goldring-g-800-e-generic-stylus/a-5389/

Thakker also sell good quality drive belts for Thorens. I have ordered them before and they work just fine.
https://www.thakker.eu/en/belts/turntables/thorens-td-160-original-thakker-belt/a-4589/


Thanks to everyone for the latest replies and I will order stylus and go through the processes suggested re: balancing etc. thanks :-)

Re: my other question (and your post about belts Japi)....

...so the issue is that when the turntable starts up, it is *extremely* slow to start up, to the point of it now almost needing a push to start. Once it has got going, speed seems reasonably accurate.

Will this be a belt issue?
fozzyrfc
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 6
Joined: 24 Apr 2016 18:49

United Kingdom

Re: Help please - Salora Stereo 2001 with Thorens TD-160

Postby Japi Roelofs » 14 Feb 2018 13:22

fozzyrfc wrote:...so the issue is that when the turntable starts up, it is *extremely* slow to start up, to the point of it now almost needing a push to start. Once it has got going, speed seems reasonably accurate.

Will this be a belt issue?


It can be a belt issue, if it's really old and loose it might stretch or slip.

Do make sure to get the main bearing cleaned and relubricated. Also make sure the rim of the inner platter, and the surface of the drive pulley are clean, use paper towels and alcohol to wipe the surface, continue doing so until no more dirt appears on the paper towel.
Japi Roelofs
long player
long player
contributor
 
Posts: 4086
Images: 20
Joined: 05 Apr 2008 16:53
Location: Netherlands

Netherlands

Re: Help please - Salora Stereo 2001 with Thorens TD-160

Postby fozzyrfc » 15 Feb 2018 09:46

Japi Roelofs wrote:
fozzyrfc wrote:...so the issue is that when the turntable starts up, it is *extremely* slow to start up, to the point of it now almost needing a push to start. Once it has got going, speed seems reasonably accurate.

Will this be a belt issue?


It can be a belt issue, if it's really old and loose it might stretch or slip.

Do make sure to get the main bearing cleaned and relubricated. Also make sure the rim of the inner platter, and the surface of the drive pulley are clean, use paper towels and alcohol to wipe the surface, continue doing so until no more dirt appears on the paper towel.


Thank you for this reply.
Sorry to be a nuisance but is all this stuff easy to do? i.e. can i get to all these parts easily to clean, replace belt?
Thanks (sorry - very inexperienced with this)
fozzyrfc
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 6
Joined: 24 Apr 2016 18:49

United Kingdom

Re: Help please - Salora Stereo 2001 with Thorens TD-160

Postby Japi Roelofs » 15 Feb 2018 13:04

Not difficult to do.

If you remove the outer platter (just lift it off) you will see the inner platter, the belt, and the motor pulley it is hooked around. The belt you just unhook from the pulley and put aside. Whether or not the inner platter can be just lifted up, I can't say. I'm not sure if there is a safety device that prevents the inner platter from being lifted, as your TD160 is built into a console this might be a challenge. Just give it a try.

Watch this video:

Japi Roelofs
long player
long player
contributor
 
Posts: 4086
Images: 20
Joined: 05 Apr 2008 16:53
Location: Netherlands

Netherlands

Next

Return to Thorens