Technics Spindle Bearing Oil.

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rewfew
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Re: Technics Spindle Bearing Oil.

Post by rewfew » 24 Jul 2015 21:13

dutchflea wrote:On the topic of originality I have a different opinion
Perhaps your being just a bit over the top about authenticity and formula. They issue a report stating the kind of oil used at one time by Technics to lubricate their turntable bearings. With that information, find and buy in bulk if needed. KAB took the trouble to find out the "origin" used by Panasonic and package a product that is probably 100 percent of the actual, original, bonified, sure-fire-toot'n, real deal, honest to goodness oil supplied with the new turntable. Unless the Anderol 465 has changed. Why fret over it? See, compressor oil, gear oil, everyone's got an idea, even the manufacturer's stated is disregarded.

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Re: Technics Spindle Bearing Oil.

Post by dutchflea » 24 Jul 2015 21:19

Over the top? Maybe. All things you are mentioning are just fine with me, as long as one doesn't claim to be selling the original if it is not original. Sure, I feel strongly about that. I also do not like counterfeit gear with NIKE on it sold as original, official NIKE gear, no matter how well it is made. Because it is cheating. :)

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Re: Technics Spindle Bearing Oil.

Post by rewfew » 24 Jul 2015 23:18

dutchflea wrote: Because it is cheating.
What ever dude.

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Re: Technics Spindle Bearing Oil.

Post by cafe latte » 24 Jul 2015 23:31

fastal007 wrote:Yeh, that's interesting, I'm right that Castrol Edge would be ok, SAE 20 is well with in the parameters of 5/W30 fully sinthetic racing oil (very high quality).
I can buy Castrol Edge for €15,00 a litre plus a syringe for €1.00.
Bearing in mind the conditions the Spindle runs in, it's not under a very high load at all, plus the high quality of Technics micro bearings Edge will easily support them.
As you say it's misleading to advertise that the oil on sale is Technics original, it has similer properties but it's not Technics.
I'm an Engineer so I fully understand the properties of various oils and SAE values, so I'll try the Castrol Edge.
Interesting conversation and great to know other users opinions. Regards Fastal.
No it wont be correct as Castrol edge is an oil recommended for car engines (closed system with a filter) not an open turntable bearing. Car engine oils have emusifying agents in them which absorb water, fine in a car engine that gets hot, not so good in a turntable bearing. I will post a pic of a turntable bearing when I find it of a turntable bearing I had which was full of car engine oil that has gone gloopy white with water and then brown with rust. Compressor oils or Andersol which is the correct Technics oil will all be fine as long as they are around sae20 iso68, actually iso46 will also be fine as it is still around sae20. Compressor oils and andersol have the correct additives for bronze bearings and dont contain emulsifying agents. Try to get a synthetic compressor oil if you can.
Cheers
Chris

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Re: Technics Spindle Bearing Oil.

Post by cafe latte » 24 Jul 2015 23:35

dutchflea wrote:Over the top? Maybe. All things you are mentioning are just fine with me, as long as one doesn't claim to be selling the original if it is not original. Sure, I feel strongly about that. I also do not like counterfeit gear with NIKE on it sold as original, official NIKE gear, no matter how well it is made. Because it is cheating. :)
Kab is selling the same oil as the original Technics oil, the same exact stuff in a similar bottle, this is not cheating is is actually very helpful and he does not charge that much for it when you consider how much you need to lube a bearing.
I use compressor oil myself as I have quite a few turntables so I get though quite a bit of oil as I use it in all of them.
Chris

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Re: Technics Spindle Bearing Oil.

Post by jjones3 » 25 Jul 2015 00:16

Nearfield is original Technics oil from a 1985 SP-10 MK2A. The pipette was sealed until a few minutes ago. The other puddle is KAB oil I bought a month ago.
P1010609.jpg
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The full res photo is here: http://fidelisanalog.com/wp-content/upl ... 010609.jpg

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Re: Technics Spindle Bearing Oil.

Post by dutchflea » 25 Jul 2015 08:45

Interesting! The color is different and the surface tension too, as far as I can tell. As I said, my Technics oil is (and has been since I bought it new) less transparent than the various Anderol 465's shown on the web. This picture confirms this. So if the KAB stuff is indeed Anderol 465, it might be technically equivalent but it is not exactly the same.

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Re: Technics Spindle Bearing Oil.

Post by cafe latte » 25 Jul 2015 09:27

dutchflea wrote:Interesting! The color is different and the surface tension too, as far as I can tell. As I said, my Technics oil is (and has been since I bought it new) less transparent than the various Anderol 465's shown on the web. This picture confirms this. So if the KAB stuff is indeed Anderol 465, it might be technically equivalent but it is not exactly the same.
I am not so sure..
I have asked Kevin at Kab for comment.
I wonder if the old Technics oil has reacted with the plastic in the vile, my shooting box which is quite new has gone dark brown on the top with a very short time in the sun. From a pic of two different puddles it is impossible to say which is thicker not to mention are the two oils at exactly the same temperature anyway. Oil thickness can not be determined by a pic it is a lot more complicated than that.

Regards
Chris

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Re: Technics Spindle Bearing Oil.

Post by fastal007 » 25 Jul 2015 09:51

Guys and Japi, Hydraulic oil is designed for high pressure apps and hygroscopic (adsorbs water) defo no no...!
Gearbox oil ie EP oil is high viscosity and will force the bearings to drag in the carrier, defo no no...!
ISO 68 is equivalent to SAE W20 Mineral Oil or Fully Synthetic (can also be Silicon based.
That's why I suggested Castrol Edge, SAE 5/W30 wil give an average of ISO 68 or SAE W20 and is fully Synthetic with anti corrosion properties and will maintain the correct viscosity regardless of temperature.

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Re: Technics Spindle Bearing Oil.

Post by cafe latte » 25 Jul 2015 10:05

fastal007 wrote:Guys and Japi, Hydraulic oil is designed for high pressure apps and hygroscopic (adsorbs water) defo no no...!
Gearbox oil ie EP oil is high viscosity and will force the bearings to drag in the carrier, defo no no...!
ISO 68 is equivalent to SAE W20 Mineral Oil or Fully Synthetic (can also be Silicon based.
That's why I suggested Castrol Edge, SAE 5/W30 wil give an average of ISO 68 or SAE W20 and is fully Synthetic with anti corrosion properties and will maintain the correct viscosity regardless of temperature.
Compressor oil does not absorb water and it has similar additives to andersol. Castrol edge is an engine oil so it will absorb water so it is no good for an open bearing.
Chris

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Re: Technics Spindle Bearing Oil.

Post by dutchflea » 25 Jul 2015 10:17

cafe latte wrote:
dutchflea wrote:Interesting! The color is different and the surface tension too, as far as I can tell. As I said, my Technics oil is (and has been since I bought it new) less transparent than the various Anderol 465's shown on the web. This picture confirms this. So if the KAB stuff is indeed Anderol 465, it might be technically equivalent but it is not exactly the same.
I am not so sure..
I have asked Kevin at Kab for comment.
I wonder if the old Technics oil has reacted with the plastic in the vile, my shooting box which is quite new has gone dark brown on the top with a very short time in the sun. From a pic of two different puddles it is impossible to say which is thicker not to mention are the two oils at exactly the same temperature anyway. Oil thickness can not be determined by a pic it is a lot more complicated than that.

Regards
Chris
I am not sure either. Of course I cannot make any judgements about the surface tension of the 2 oils just based on a single pic. I am just suggesting things based on what I see on the pic, there is not more I can do. I think jjones3 should be able to give us some more info about perceived color, viscosity, surface tension and odor.

All I know about the color and odor of the Technics oil is what I have seen for myself:
- the many Technics turntables that I have seen that came supplied with a small bottle of oil underneath the platter (SL-1200, 1300, 1500 etc) had that oil with that brownish color and a very distinct (nice :)) odor. Sure they are older turntables so the oil might have been discoloring, but none the less.
- the original Technics-Panasonic pipettes I have been buying new (through the years from 1995 until 2010 I have bought 3) all had that same color and odor.

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Re: Technics Spindle Bearing Oil.

Post by cafe latte » 25 Jul 2015 11:13

Yes but how long had the oil been there, also did Technics change the recommended oil at some point?
Maybe Andersol was the Technics recommended oil at the end of production..
The darker oil looks mineral to me, just idle speculation on my part.
Chris

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Re: Technics Spindle Bearing Oil.

Post by dutchflea » 25 Jul 2015 12:23

Yep, I fully agree those things can be the case (though I don't think they used mineral oil).

I know I am not proving anything here, just consider it personal experience. I bought the oil new in box 3 times from different sources at different times (around 2000), and it was the very same colored and smelling oil as was in the bottles of the old 1200/1300/1400/1500's that I serviced (dated around 1975-78). The new (but how long on shelf? we'll never know) pipette's I bought and the old bottles from the turntables all had the exact same label and the same SFWO code. And they surely looked and the same to me and had that same distinctive smell.

I happen to have a master degree in chemistry so I think I am aware of some of the aspects concerning material composition, properties and aging. Too bad that I havent done a chemical analysis / decomposition of those oils, that would be the only way to really know it. :)

By the way, the 465 oil is from Anderol, not Andersol. ;)

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Re: Technics Spindle Bearing Oil.

Post by jjones3 » 25 Jul 2015 12:50

I don't think there's any way to judge surface tension from pictures, let alone that the puddles are different sizes so that'll govern what you see.

Neither oil has much of an odor. I'm familiar with the Technics oil odor from used bearings, but neither oil has that right out of the pipette/bottle. The discoloration of the Technics oil does look like something is suspended in the oil giving it the yellow hue. My first thought was something in the plastic of the bottle. I've also considered something in the oil has broken down over the last 30 years, or Anderol, assuming they're the original OEM, has changed the formula since three decades ago.

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Re: Technics Spindle Bearing Oil.

Post by cafe latte » 25 Jul 2015 13:13

dutchflea wrote:Yep, I fully agree those things can be the case (though I don't think they used mineral oil).

I know I am not proving anything here, just consider it personal experience. I bought the oil new in box 3 times from different sources at different times (around 2000), and it was the very same colored and smelling oil as was in the bottles of the old 1200/1300/1400/1500's that I serviced (dated around 1975-78). The new (but how long on shelf? we'll never know) pipette's I bought and the old bottles from the turntables all had the exact same label and the same SFWO code. And they surely looked and the same to me and had that same distinctive smell.

I happen to have a master degree in chemistry so I think I am aware of some of the aspects concerning material composition, properties and aging. Too bad that I havent done a chemical analysis / decomposition of those oils, that would be the only way to really know it. :)

By the way, the 465 oil is from Anderol, not Andersol. ;)
Yes I know it is 465, I was just about to eat dinner and the trade name Anderol,Andersol, my pizza was more important, nobody wants to annoy the Italian cook. :D
Re qualifications, I am a biologist (masters) so I have studied chemistry, my missus has a phd and quite a few years post doc under her belt. Elisabetta Gianasi inventor (google it, she is an expert on polymers, actually before we bought the farm she was one of the top in her field in the world). She agrees decomposition is a possibility, also it is possible as I said that they simply changed the recommended oil. Testing the samples is the only way to know.
Chris