Technics SL-1200GR Worth Every Penny

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oldschool1955
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Re: Technics SL-1200GR Worth Every Penny

Post by oldschool1955 » 03 Aug 2018 20:54

New to the forum but last year dusted off my old vinyl and tuned-up my old 1700Mk II and have been bitten by the vinyl bug in a big way.

The 1700 MK II has started to have random speed fluctuations so I just bought my 1210GR yesterday to replace my older SL1700MkII that need some work and have to say in limited listening last night it is a fantastic TT. It is dead quiet and incredibly well dampened. Next upgrade may well be a KAB damper as I have read good things about them and they are an easy install and look like a value for the price.

Was also thinking about a record clamp so wanted to ask advice if this really improves the sound and if anyone had recommendations for one that works with the 1210GR?

stigpem

Re: Technics SL-1200GR Worth Every Penny

Post by stigpem » 04 Aug 2018 00:01

I bought a SL1210GR this week (Monday). I had (still have) a Rega RP6 with an Inspire plinth. The plinth upgrade was supposed to add more depth and weight to proceedings. It didn't. Well, not as much as I wanted, though it looks a load better than the OEM plinth.
Eventually I went on the hunt for a new turntable that would give the er 'hi-fi' experience but with the warmth and musicality I used to get from my old Garrard DD75/M75ED T2 combo.

Enter the 1210.
Initially I tried my old Rega Exact cartridge - absolutely brilliant. Better than it ever sounded on the RP6. No idea why, it just is. Bring out the Reggae and Rock and Roll !

Next up was a Goldring 1042 - excellent width, depth etc but too bright for my ears. (60 and can still hear 23KHz - bright is not pleasant). The brightness may be because it's new or because it doesn't match the capacitance requirements of my Rega amp. I've give it 24 hours over 3 days but it still doesn't impress.

Today it was the Dynavector DV20X2H's turn. Now, that cartridge produced a 'wow' moment when I first heard it on the RP6. It's even better on the 1210. On the RP6 it was analytical and a little cold. Now it's analytical and warm. Analytical is OK by me. I want to hear what I bought. Cold leaves me just that.

The RP6 is now officially redundant.

I am so glad I bought the 1210 - a real Guzzi of a turntable (everything comes apart, it's a doddle to work on and use, it's built like a brick outhouse and the poseurs stay a 100 miles from it).

Other stuff is a Rega Elicit-R with ATC SCM19 speakers.

cafe latte
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Re: Technics SL-1200GR Worth Every Penny

Post by cafe latte » 04 Aug 2018 00:29

stigpem wrote:I bought a SL1210GR this week (Monday). I had (still have) a Rega RP6 with an Inspire plinth. The plinth upgrade was supposed to add more depth and weight to proceedings. It didn't. Well, not as much as I wanted, though it looks a load better than the OEM plinth.
Eventually I went on the hunt for a new turntable that would give the er 'hi-fi' experience but with the warmth and musicality I used to get from my old Garrard DD75/M75ED T2 combo.

Enter the 1210.
Initially I tried my old Rega Exact cartridge - absolutely brilliant. Better than it ever sounded on the RP6. No idea why, it just is. Bring out the Reggae and Rock and Roll !

Next up was a Goldring 1042 - excellent width, depth etc but too bright for my ears. (60 and can still hear 23KHz - bright is not pleasant). The brightness may be because it's new or because it doesn't match the capacitance requirements of my Rega amp. I've give it 24 hours over 3 days but it still doesn't impress.

Today it was the Dynavector DV20X2H's turn. Now, that cartridge produced a 'wow' moment when I first heard it on the RP6. It's even better on the 1210. On the RP6 it was analytical and a little cold. Now it's analytical and warm. Analytical is OK by me. I want to hear what I bought. Cold leaves me just that.

The RP6 is now officially redundant.

I am so glad I bought the 1210 - a real Guzzi of a turntable (everything comes apart, it's a doddle to work on and use, it's built like a brick outhouse and the poseurs stay a 100 miles from it).

Other stuff is a Rega Elicit-R with ATC SCM19 speakers.
Glad you like the Technics, but no way is it possible for someone at 60 to hear 23KHz. New born babies (some) can here to 23KHz , at 18 good ears will hear 20KHz but by 25 it is normal even if you look after your ears not to be able to hear 17KHz due to normal changes in the ear. I had a hearing test for the fire brigade, I am 46 years old and I could hear 16KHz, both plots were nice and flat too. 16KHz is almost unheard of for my age, I have avoided headphones and never was a fan of night clubs. That said there is a natural degeneration we can do nothing about, if you really still had hearing that could hear a 23KHz tone you would have to have had super human hearing that topped out at like 30KHz or something as a kid, just not possible.
Chris

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Re: Technics SL-1200GR Worth Every Penny

Post by cafe latte » 04 Aug 2018 00:41

A quick off topic.. Online hearing tests which a lot of people do to get frequency range of hearing should be avoided. First headphones are not calibrated for the job, hearing test headphones are far from hifi headphones. With online tests you can play a 20KHz tone and your headphone may produce a 16KHz tone so proves little without proper calibrated gear. Second it is common for people doing online hearing tests to turn up the volume trying to hear the high frequency tones and actually damage their ears.
Chris

stigpem

Re: Technics SL-1200GR Worth Every Penny

Post by stigpem » 04 Aug 2018 10:52

I have no reason to lie about my hearing. I was tested above 27KHz at the age of 21 by Bruel and Kjaer in Ottawa. Recently, whilst auditioning ATC speakers at Brian and Trevors, Brian couldn't hear the distortion in some speakers I had brought in (Tannoy) whereas Trevor could. He used a phone app (admittedly not scientific) at 23Khz which was painful to hear - Brian could hear nowt.

cafe latte
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Re: Technics SL-1200GR Worth Every Penny

Post by cafe latte » 04 Aug 2018 11:26

stigpem wrote:I have no reason to lie about my hearing. I was tested above 27KHz at the age of 21 by Bruel and Kjaer in Ottawa. Recently, whilst auditioning ATC speakers at Brian and Trevors, Brian couldn't hear the distortion in some speakers I had brought in (Tannoy) whereas Trevor could. He used a phone app (admittedly not scientific) at 23Khz which was painful to hear - Brian could hear nowt.
Or course you were.
Sorry that is cr@p 22KHz is the limit and not at 21. 23K at 60 is impossible you are not a Bat.
Chris

stigpem

Re: Technics SL-1200GR Worth Every Penny

Post by stigpem » 04 Aug 2018 11:48

As I wrote, I do not lie. Your replies are both ignorant and offensive.

cafe latte
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Re: Technics SL-1200GR Worth Every Penny

Post by cafe latte » 04 Aug 2018 12:47

stigpem wrote:As I wrote, I do not lie. Your replies are both ignorant and offensive.
Apologies this is my subject I am a Biologist, I did not mean to offend but I know this stuff inside out, also partner is a pharmacist and father in law is a medical professor and his wife is a nurse. 23KHz at 60 years old is impossible, dont mean to be offensive at all but it is just not possible unless you are a bat. And 27KHz for anyone at any age...
Chris
Last edited by cafe latte on 04 Aug 2018 13:23, edited 1 time in total.

cafe latte
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Re: Technics SL-1200GR Worth Every Penny

Post by cafe latte » 04 Aug 2018 13:09

Dont want to get into this, as it is off topic, but we have three bones in the inner ear and this is the reason we cant hear over 20KHz without going too much into this they simply cant transmit the sound at a higher frequency. As we age age bones transmit less (junctions change) as do the hairs in the inner ear (another issue totally separate). We are limited to around 20KHz due to the bone arrangement we have. 23KHz is simply not possible at 60 due the he design of our ears. There are claims of 28KHz for humans but non proven in air transmission but via a special headset which is onto bone ie scull (kind of a direct transmission via pads to the bone). This for some is possible in the very young but air transmission ie speakers 23KHz is just not even close to possible in real terms for anyone and for sure not anyone 60. 23KHz at 20 would be amazing due to the design of the ear amazing as it is.. Dont mean to be offensive but this is my subject and what you claim is impossible.
There are a number of reasons why 23k is not possible bones and the density change with age, the junctions change, then the deterioration of the hairs in the ear and the fact that the bone/ air arrangement cant transmit this high a frequency in the first place easily. A special headset can transit higher frequencies to bone behind the ear higher than normal but this is not hifi..
Tone wise 12KHz is seriously high if heard will have audible normal volume, 14KHz is higher than background noise, blood in head etc so very hard to hear you need totally silent room and even for young it will be very high and quiet. 16KHZ is super high and almost impossible to hear against background noise with our ears older than 20. I can hear 16KHz but in hearing test with headphones but really trying hard. Higher needs very good ears in super quiet room and young people. Music over 16KHz does not make much difference even to the young. Fluro tubes computer fans transformers, so many things make high frequency noise, much over 14k the brain will tune out anyway.
Chris

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Re: Technics SL-1200GR Worth Every Penny

Post by Spinner45 » 04 Aug 2018 16:47

Holy Ultrasonic Transducer, Batman!
robin shocked.jpg
(146.75 KiB) Downloaded 219 times

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Re: Technics SL-1200GR Worth Every Penny

Post by tomstephens89 » 06 Jan 2019 14:26

Just stumbled across this thread as I have now been the proud and very happy owner of a 1210GR for the last 2 weeks. :D

It is simply a fantastic turntable and has been a massive upgrade over my Audio Technica LP5. I have an Ortofon 2M Blue cart mounted in an Ortofon SH-4 headshell. It sounds massive and extracts tons of detail from the groove.

One thing to note about the VTA though... It comes with a 3mm rubber mat which with my cart+headshell choice seems to leave the arm sloping down to the record. I have put my AT thicker mat on and its much better. I'd say my visual check of the alignment looks good but I do find it difficult since it looks different from every angle. (I just eyeball it and check against a stack of business cards).

I have the Technics RGS0010 coming to replace the included RGS00008. Then I can put my AT mat back on the LP5.

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Re: Technics SL-1200GR Worth Every Penny

Post by hedgehog35 » 06 Jan 2019 15:29

tomstephens89 wrote:
06 Jan 2019 14:26
Just stumbled across this thread as I have now been the proud and very happy owner of a 1210GR for the last 2 weeks. :D


One thing to note about the VTA though... It comes with a 3mm rubber mat which with my cart+headshell choice seems to leave the arm sloping down to the record. I have put my AT thicker mat on and its much better. I'd say my visual check of the alignment looks good but I do find it difficult since it looks different from every angle. (I just eyeball it and check against a stack of business cards).

I have the Technics RGS0010 coming to replace the included RGS00008. Then I can put my AT mat back on the LP5.
I 'downgraded' from Gyrodec/SME to 1200GR two months ago, and it turned out not to be as big step down as I thought!
1200GR is a great deck and is easily as good as the new Rega planar 6 which I auditioned for a couple of days.
A couple of minor downsides:
the limited vertical adjustment in the arm, which I discovered, like you, can leave the arm 'nose down' even in its lowest postion. I also tried the SH4 headshell and I think it is a little thinner than the original Technics one - which is why, as you said, you can't get the arm level. A thicker mat or headshell seems to be the answer - not too keen on using spacers.
Second minor moan, is the effectiveness of the arm lift/lower device - Not as good as even a budget Rega one and disappointing in a deck which is beautifully assembled apart from this.
I have upgraded the phono cable which gives a small improvement and may experiment with a different (thicker) headshell that has azimuth adjustment. Otherwise. I think it's the last turntable I will ever buy!

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Re: Technics SL-1200GR Worth Every Penny

Post by Sterling1 » 06 Jan 2019 15:31

tomstephens89 wrote:
06 Jan 2019 14:26
Just stumbled across this thread as I have now been the proud and very happy owner of a 1210GR for the last 2 weeks. :D

It is simply a fantastic turntable and has been a massive upgrade over my Audio Technica LP5. I have an Ortofon 2M Blue cart mounted in an Ortofon SH-4 headshell. It sounds massive and extracts tons of detail from the groove.

One thing to note about the VTA though... It comes with a 3mm rubber mat which with my cart+headshell choice seems to leave the arm sloping down to the record. I have put my AT thicker mat on and its much better. I'd say my visual check of the alignment looks good but I do find it difficult since it looks different from every angle. (I just eyeball it and check against a stack of business cards).

I have the Technics RGS0010 coming to replace the included RGS00008. Then I can put my AT mat back on the LP5.
Your problem is the SH-4 headshell. It's designed for use on 70's and 80's turntables which do not have VTA. Those turntables have stock headshells designed for 15mm high cartridges and if such headshells are used with the 18mm 2M series, the cartridge will set tail low and not perform well. The SH-4, which is a taller headshell, permits the 2Ms to set level on those older turntables. Now, what you want to do is mount your 2M to the Technics stock headshell. Then set the stylus to headshell tail distance to 52mm and turn cartridge to make it parallel to the headshell axis. Install the headshell on tonearm and then set the VTA to #1 position, which will level the cartridge using the stock 3mm mat. One more thing, the Technics headshell is adjustable for azimuth and is very light weight. I think it's higher quality than the Ortofon SH-4.

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Re: Technics SL-1200GR Worth Every Penny

Post by Sterling1 » 06 Jan 2019 16:43

hedgehog35 wrote:
06 Jan 2019 15:29
tomstephens89 wrote:
06 Jan 2019 14:26
Just stumbled across this thread as I have now been the proud and very happy owner of a 1210GR for the last 2 weeks. :D


One thing to note about the VTA though... It comes with a 3mm rubber mat which with my cart+headshell choice seems to leave the arm sloping down to the record. I have put my AT thicker mat on and its much better. I'd say my visual check of the alignment looks good but I do find it difficult since it looks different from every angle. (I just eyeball it and check against a stack of business cards).

I have the Technics RGS0010 coming to replace the included RGS00008. Then I can put my AT mat back on the LP5.
I 'downgraded' from Gyrodec/SME to 1200GR two months ago, and it turned out not to be as big step down as I thought!
1200GR is a great deck and is easily as good as the new Rega planar 6 which I auditioned for a couple of days.
A couple of minor downsides:
the limited vertical adjustment in the arm, which I discovered, like you, can leave the arm 'nose down' even in its lowest postion. I also tried the SH4 headshell and I think it is a little thinner than the original Technics one - which is why, as you said, you can't get the arm level. A thicker mat or headshell seems to be the answer - not too keen on using spacers.
Second minor moan, is the effectiveness of the arm lift/lower device - Not as good as even a budget Rega one and disappointing in a deck which is beautifully assembled apart from this.
I have upgraded the phono cable which gives a small improvement and may experiment with a different (thicker) headshell that has azimuth adjustment. Otherwise. I think it's the last turntable I will ever buy!
If you have a cart less than 17mm high, you will indeed need a thicker mat or you will need to shim. I have 3 Shure V15's which are about 15mm high. A 2mm spacer levels those carts using the stock Technics headshell and 3mm mat when the VTA is set to #0 position. Spacers are the way to go if you have many carts. Also, the Technics headshell is adjustable for azimuth and after about 6 months of operation you will notice the arm lift will smooth out.

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Re: Technics SL-1200GR Worth Every Penny

Post by hedgehog35 » 09 Jan 2019 16:47

Sterling1 wrote:
06 Jan 2019 16:43
hedgehog35 wrote:
06 Jan 2019 15:29
tomstephens89 wrote:
06 Jan 2019 14:26
Just stumbled across this thread as I have now been the proud and very happy owner of a 1210GR for the last 2 weeks. :D


Also, the Technics headshell is adjustable for azimuth and after about 6 months of operation you will notice the arm lift will smooth out.
Could someone give me a definitive answer to azimuth adjustment on the latest Technics headshell (e.g. supplied with 1200G and 1200GR).
Yes, there is tiny screw on the underside of the headshell near the collar, but there is absolutely no mention of azimuth adjustment in the manual or on the Technics web site. I have also asked my Technics dealer (who have many years of experience with their turntables), and they also have had no information about this.
Could someone direct me to where this information can be found online?

Thanks in anticipation.