Damping a Technics SL1200 Tonearm

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golgi
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Re: Damping a Technics SL1200 Tonearm

Post by golgi » 05 Dec 2019 00:57

I agree that the KAB fluid damper is a significant improvement. However in my experience the tonearm damping with heat shrink is an even greater improvement when comparing the two. I did both and would recommend that. Although would be curious to try the silicone tube insert from KAB instead of the heatshrink. But then again, I don't want to have to bother with taking apart the tonearm.

cafe latte
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Re: Damping a Technics SL1200 Tonearm

Post by cafe latte » 05 Dec 2019 01:39

golgi wrote:
05 Dec 2019 00:57
I agree that the KAB fluid damper is a significant improvement. However in my experience the tonearm damping with heat shrink is an even greater improvement when comparing the two. I did both and would recommend that. Although would be curious to try the silicone tube insert from KAB instead of the heatshrink. But then again, I don't want to have to bother with taking apart the tonearm.
For me the kab damper opened this up possibly due to the improved tracking due to the damper which for me changed the turntable from just a mid range turntable into something really special. What ever works for you though. I tried external damping and ended up adding damping inside the arm tube, but for me the kab was the wow mod.
Chris

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Re: Damping a Technics SL1200 Tonearm

Post by scho2684 » 05 Dec 2019 05:29

While I'm experimenting with a SL1400MK2 and a rewire is going to happen anyway:
That KAB tube insert, does that add significant mass to the arm?
How about strokes of Balsa wood, like you find in the SMEIII for example?

analogaudio is correct in his statement, a fluid damper is something completely different then a tube damper.
The fluid damper is only changing the resonance frequency in the horizontal plane by the way...

chamaruco
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Re: Damping a Technics SL1200 Tonearm

Post by chamaruco » 05 Dec 2019 06:17

Yes, you add 0,3-04gr to the balanced arm, but in my case with the at740ml I’m to the limit, I’m thinking to remove the anti resonant cap and add the additional weight..

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Re: Damping a Technics SL1200 Tonearm

Post by scho2684 » 05 Dec 2019 06:35

Yeah, apart from the whole damping thing(s) I'm in for a heavier counterweight...
I think the counterweight is now way to far back, and I'm using the auxiliary weight as well...
But I don't like that as the auxiliary weight sits so far back it really starts to effect your tone arm mass.
With the original headshell and a cartridge weight of about 8 grams its simply too heavy at the headshell.

I do believe the arm of the 1400MK2 is about the same mass as the 1200.
The only difference is geometry (although same S2P distance and effective length) and the bearing cross is aluminium vs the plastic from the 1200.

I have given up the idea of selling that table (which was the initial goal) as I have already spent too much on it (time and money) to sell it for a realistic price. I like it as a 2nd table because of the auto return.
I a later stage I will open a topic on the long path of restoration of this table...

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Re: Damping a Technics SL1200 Tonearm

Post by cafe latte » 05 Dec 2019 08:17

scho2684 wrote:
05 Dec 2019 06:35
Yeah, apart from the whole damping thing(s) I'm in for a heavier counterweight...
I think the counterweight is now way to far back, and I'm using the auxiliary weight as well...
But I don't like that as the auxiliary weight sits so far back it really starts to effect your tone arm mass.
With the original headshell and a cartridge weight of about 8 grams its simply too heavy at the headshell.

I do believe the arm of the 1400MK2 is about the same mass as the 1200.
The only difference is geometry (although same S2P distance and effective length) and the bearing cross is aluminium vs the plastic from the 1200.

I have given up the idea of selling that table (which was the initial goal) as I have already spent too much on it (time and money) to sell it for a realistic price. I like it as a 2nd table because of the auto return.
I a later stage I will open a topic on the long path of restoration of this table...
I have a spare sl1200mk2 arm in my hand upside down and assure you the bearing support/ cross is aluminium.
Chris

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Re: Damping a Technics SL1200 Tonearm

Post by scho2684 » 05 Dec 2019 08:53

cafe latte wrote:
05 Dec 2019 08:17
I have a spare sl1200mk2 arm in my hand upside down and assure you the bearing support/ cross is aluminium.
Interesting, I have one here that is plastic for sure (coming from a '96 SL1210MKII)
If I was sure I wont need it any more I would have melted a piece to prove...
20191205_094732.jpg
(55.44 KiB) Downloaded 44 times

cafe latte
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Re: Damping a Technics SL1200 Tonearm

Post by cafe latte » 05 Dec 2019 10:07

scho2684 wrote:
05 Dec 2019 08:53
cafe latte wrote:
05 Dec 2019 08:17
I have a spare sl1200mk2 arm in my hand upside down and assure you the bearing support/ cross is aluminium.
Interesting, I have one here that is plastic for sure (coming from a '96 SL1210MKII)
If I was sure I wont need it any more I would have melted a piece to prove...

20191205_094732.jpg
Mine is last production and for sure aluminium, just had it out again, metal for sure.
Chris

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Re: Damping a Technics SL1200 Tonearm

Post by lola20 » 05 Dec 2019 10:25

You got me curious. I put a multimeter on it and it conducts, zero ohms looks metal to me.

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Re: Damping a Technics SL1200 Tonearm

Post by cafe latte » 05 Dec 2019 10:28

lola20 wrote:
05 Dec 2019 10:25
You got me curious. I put a multimeter on it and it conducts, zero ohms looks metal to me.
Mine too it is metal.
Chris

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Re: Damping a Technics SL1200 Tonearm

Post by scho2684 » 05 Dec 2019 10:54

lola20 wrote:
05 Dec 2019 10:25
You got me curious. I put a multimeter on it and it conducts, zero ohms looks metal to me.
Mine also has zero Ohms (good point!) however it is still plastic.
Plastic with a metal type paint or cover, but only very thin...
The pattern that is suppose to look like it was made on a lathe would otherwise never have been achieved, hence the reason why the cross types on the 13/14/1500MK2 are having a smooth surface

Proof: I have melted a piece on a place that wont disturb me if I ever have to use it again...
It's plastic...
20191205_114532.jpg
(94.43000000000001 KiB) Downloaded 29 times

chamaruco
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Re: Damping a Technics SL1200 Tonearm

Post by chamaruco » 05 Dec 2019 11:07

scho2684 wrote:
05 Dec 2019 06:35

But I don't like that as the auxiliary weight sits so far back it really starts to effect your tone arm mass.
pls someone could explain me better this issue?

thanks

cafe latte
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Re: Damping a Technics SL1200 Tonearm

Post by cafe latte » 05 Dec 2019 11:17

scho2684 wrote:
05 Dec 2019 10:54
lola20 wrote:
05 Dec 2019 10:25
You got me curious. I put a multimeter on it and it conducts, zero ohms looks metal to me.
Mine also has zero Ohms (good point!) however it is still plastic.
Plastic with a metal type paint or cover, but only very thin...
The pattern that is suppose to look like it was made on a lathe would otherwise never have been achieved, hence the reason why the cross types on the 13/14/1500MK2 are having a smooth surface

Proof: I have melted a piece on a place that wont disturb me if I ever have to use it again...
It's plastic...

20191205_114532.jpg
How hot did you make it melt? Cast aluminium melts easily. Unless things have changed since yours they are metal.
Chris

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Re: Damping a Technics SL1200 Tonearm

Post by cafe latte » 05 Dec 2019 11:19

cafe latte wrote:
05 Dec 2019 11:17
scho2684 wrote:
05 Dec 2019 10:54
lola20 wrote:
05 Dec 2019 10:25
You got me curious. I put a multimeter on it and it conducts, zero ohms looks metal to me.
Mine also has zero Ohms (good point!) however it is still plastic.
Plastic with a metal type paint or cover, but only very thin...
The pattern that is suppose to look like it was made on a lathe would otherwise never have been achieved, hence the reason why the cross types on the 13/14/1500MK2 are having a smooth surface

Proof: I have melted a piece on a place that wont disturb me if I ever have to use it again...
It's plastic...

20191205_114532.jpg
How hot did you make it melt? Cast aluminium melts easily. Unless things have changed since yours they are metal.
Chris
Interesting mine does not have a casting line like yours..
Chris

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Re: Damping a Technics SL1200 Tonearm

Post by scho2684 » 05 Dec 2019 11:25

chamaruco wrote:
05 Dec 2019 11:07
pls someone could explain me better this issue?
Sure...
In general it is considered that the counterweight sits as close as possible to the pillar of the arm.
This way it wont effect the effective mass of the arm.
Effective mass is the amount of mass it seems to have when reacting to forces, so its not a 1 to 1 translation to weight.

By putting on the auxiliary weight, you add a significant mass to the end of the stub, far away from the pillar of the arm.
Because the arm rotates on the pillar, and the mass is far away from that pillar, it starts to act like a flywheel (although that might be a bit of a overdone description)