Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Observations

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raphaelmabo
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Re: Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Observations

Post by raphaelmabo » 06 Feb 2019 14:43

The AT-LP120 is simply too inexpensive for a direct drive, it's too compromised.
Denon DJ VL12 would be a more professional alternative.

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Re: Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Observations

Post by chiz » 06 Feb 2019 21:49

raphaelmabo wrote:
06 Feb 2019 14:43
Denon DJ VL12 would be a more professional alternative.
Does anyone know how the Numark NTX1000 compares to the Denon VL12?

From pictures they look to be based on the same design.

https://www.numark.com/product/ntx1000

https://www.denondj.com/performance-tur ... 12primexus

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Re: Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Observations

Post by Spinner45 » 06 Feb 2019 23:59

chiz wrote:
06 Feb 2019 21:49
raphaelmabo wrote:
06 Feb 2019 14:43
Denon DJ VL12 would be a more professional alternative.
Does anyone know how the Numark NTX1000 compares to the Denon VL12?

From pictures they look to be based on the same design.

https://www.numark.com/product/ntx1000

https://www.denondj.com/performance-tur ... 12primexus
Numark was always an inexpensive brand with lackluster quality of its products.

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Re: Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Observations

Post by BMRR » 21 Feb 2019 14:16

BMRR wrote:
05 Feb 2019 19:30
Another idea (sorry to overload you with so many suggestions) is a used Numark TTX or TTXUSB. Don't be put off by their rather unconventional appearance; they are VERY heavy and can take one hell of a beating. I have one that I use for playing 78 RPM records. It is a beast. It's much heavier than it looks and has been very reliable. One of its unique features is that the motor magnet is built into the underside of the platter, just like on a Technics turntable. It also has a metal top deck and a rubberized base, kind of similar to a 1200 in that regard. The really great thing about these is that they're selling for next to nothing these days because everyone wants a PLX-1000 or a Technics. I just saw a pair of TTXs in super condition for $150. At that price they're an absolute steal, and they can take far more abuse than an LP120.
I ended up buying that pair of TTXs for $150. Too good a deal to pass up. They are absolute beasts. I could be wrong but I think they're actually a bit heavier than a 1200 Mk2. The guy I bought them from had been using them on the road for the past 15 years, and believe it or not they're still in great shape and work perfectly. They are seriously rugged turntables. If they can take that kind of beating and keep going, I think they'd do just fine in a community radio station.

I also find the Denon VL12 very interesting, partly because Denon and Numark are now owned by the same parent company and it appears that the VL12 inherited a lot of technology and features from the Numark TTX.

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Re: Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Observations

Post by majick47 » 22 Feb 2019 03:32

I would heed Kents advice he being a pro radio engineer of many years. If the station doesn't want to go with professional grade Technics SP tables the next in line is the semi pro SL-1200Mk2 that was used in thousands of discos/clubs by DJs that played "music" and didn't "scratch" the records. The Technics tables have an envious reputation for quality, reliability and performance when matched with an appropriate cartridge, should be able to pick up a couple in excellent shape for a $1,000 or less. The LP120 is a cheap knockoff of the SL-1200Mk2 and at best a last resort pick for home use by someone on a very meager budget. Just about any $25 CraigsList preowned vintage table will be better than an LP120.

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Re: Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Observations

Post by Spinner45 » 22 Feb 2019 06:36

majick47 wrote:
22 Feb 2019 03:32
I would heed Kents advice he being a pro radio engineer of many years. If the station doesn't want to go with professional grade Technics SP tables the next in line is the semi pro SL-1200Mk2 that was used in thousands of discos/clubs by DJs that played "music" and didn't "scratch" the records. The Technics tables have an envious reputation for quality, reliability and performance when matched with an appropriate cartridge, should be able to pick up a couple in excellent shape for a $1,000 or less. The LP120 is a cheap knockoff of the SL-1200Mk2 and at best a last resort pick for home use by someone on a very meager budget. Just about any $25 CraigsList preowned vintage table will be better than an LP120.
Back in the day, with the Mk2's, the "cartridge of choice" for them by DJ's was the Stanton 681E's.
And they performed very nicely with them.

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Re: Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Observations

Post by KentT » 22 Feb 2019 13:52

BMRR wrote:
05 Feb 2019 19:30
Another idea (sorry to overload you with so many suggestions) is a used Numark TTX or TTXUSB. Don't be put off by their rather unconventional appearance; they are VERY heavy and can take one hell of a beating. I have one that I use for playing 78 RPM records. It is a beast. It's much heavier than it looks and has been very reliable. One of its unique features is that the motor magnet is built into the underside of the platter, just like on a Technics turntable. It also has a metal top deck and a rubberized base, kind of similar to a 1200 in that regard. The really great thing about these is that they're selling for next to nothing these days because everyone wants a PLX-1000 or a Technics. I just saw a pair of TTXs in super condition for $150. At that price they're an absolute steal, and they can take far more abuse than an LP120.

Not acceptable for broadcast use. Too crude a tonearm. Not built for anything but HipHop/Scratch use. Cheap for a reason. Lots of tracking error. Your suggestion of a Technics SL-1500 is a much better one. That is in good order a fine performer, and for light broadcast use, a good choice. It meets broadcast requirements for that.

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Re: Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Observations

Post by BMRR » 22 Feb 2019 13:57

Have you used one, Kent?

Regarding tracking error, I assume you're referring to the straight tonearm. What you may not know is that it also comes with an S-shaped arm wand. The straight and S wands are interchangeable. I have both of them. When using the S-shaped wand, the tonearm has the same effective length and same minimum/maximum tracking error as a Technics tonearm.

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Re: Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Observations

Post by Allyn » 22 Feb 2019 19:26

Vinyl is popular, very trendy, new product is coming out daily. China has adapted the General Motors 1970's method of Quality Control. "Let the Dealers handle it" keep the line moving. Audio-Technica TT's are everywhere including a Foo Foo stores like Bed Bath & Beyond. Kinda sad for AT, when the dust clears their name will be stained.

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Re: Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Observations

Post by BMRR » 22 Feb 2019 19:43

Allyn wrote:
22 Feb 2019 19:26
China has adapted the General Motors 1970's method of Quality Control.
Unfair to paint an entire country with the same brush. Companies pay for the level of quality control they want, regardless of where their products are manufactured. There are plenty of high quality products made in China. I'm typing this post on an Apple laptop that was made in China. The laptop is eight years old and still works perfectly. Apple demands extremely high quality and they get it from their Chinese manufacturing partners.

Likewise, Audio-Technica recently built their own new plant in China. They are manufacturing cartridges, styli, microphones and other products in that plant. The quality is every bit as good as the products built in AT's Japan facility. Maybe someday AT will bring turntable production in-house. That would be nice. The turntables would still say Made in China but the quality might be much better.

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Re: Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Observations

Post by Allyn » 22 Feb 2019 20:19

BMRR: I stand corrected, China as whole is not the issue, product QC is and that issue is World wide. Why would AT go to the expense of building there own manufacturing facility unless they want to have more control. Also comparing Apple to Audio-Technica really. Money can give a company control and Apple has plenty of it.

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Re: Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Observations

Post by KentT » 24 Feb 2019 04:20

BMRR wrote:
22 Feb 2019 13:57
Have you used one, Kent?

Regarding tracking error, I assume you're referring to the straight tonearm. What you may not know is that it also comes with an S-shaped arm wand. The straight and S wands are interchangeable. I have both of them. When using the S-shaped wand, the tonearm has the same effective length and same minimum/maximum tracking error as a Technics tonearm.
Tracking error is decent. Tonearm's antiskate is not trustworthy. The arm bearings aren't 10% as good as the Technics either. Even the AT LP-120 arm beats the Numark TTX tonearm by several times over. Even though it has flaws of it's own. Again. HipHop/Scratch artist grade. S shaped better but still doesn't belong in a broadcast environment. OK if tracked 2 grams or heavier. Not precision enough. I could have had one cheap, I didn't buy it because of the tonearm (and it had an S arm at that). Those arm bearings didn't feel robust enough even for me to use at home. The motor on the Numark TTX I am not dissing. The motor is a very good one, feels robust and plenty of torque. This armless would be a contender. The Technics SL-1500 arm is very excellent, better than any SL-1200 wannabe I've seen, even SuperOEM models. I'd recommend the SL-1500 for 2-4 hours a day on air of vinyl playback, it would do fine.

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Re: Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Observations

Post by Shadowman82 » 24 Feb 2019 20:48

And some people were complaining that the new SL-1200 MK7 isn't as high end in build as the two more expensive SL-1200s . Maybe so but it still beats most other direct drive TT on the market in terms of quality I bet .

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Re: Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Observations

Post by Vinylfreak86 » 24 Feb 2019 21:51

Shadowman82 wrote:
24 Feb 2019 20:48
And some people were complaining that the new SL-1200 MK7 isn't as high end in build as the two more expensive SL-1200s . Maybe so but it still beats most other direct drive TT on the market in terms of quality I bet .
Of course it beats all other, no matter that SL-1200MK7 is not made in Japan, but in Malaysia. But still made in Panasonic factory and all engineered by them. Other mass produced new DD turntables are made by two OEM`s, Hanpin and Yahorng. DD turntables are more or less extinct species, they survived only on DJ scene after downfall of vinyl. And now only Panasonic brought them back on a hifi scene.

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Re: Audio-Technica AT-LP120-USB Observations

Post by Shadowman82 » 24 Feb 2019 22:52

Yes there are not many quality DD turntables being made . I have seen somewhere that VPI is making one , but it will be one of those limited very high end extremely expensive kind of turntables that will make the SL-1200 G seem like a bargain in terms of price .