Why can't digital sound as 'warm' as analog?

compact disc, dacs, mp3 players and streaming audio
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Issuesman666
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Re: Why can't digital sound as 'warm' as analog?

Post by Issuesman666 » 01 Aug 2019 01:57

Shadowman82 wrote:
01 Aug 2019 01:20
Well I said limitations that CD imposes upon itself , crappy mastering being one of them . They could master CDs they way they did in the late 80s but hardly no CD releases these days are mastered like that . Sure it's convenient but it also causes listening fatigue .
To you......

Great music triumphs format fixation and bashing any day.

I can't get listening fatigue when the music sweeps me away,

NOYB
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Re: Why can't digital sound as 'warm' as analog?

Post by NOYB » 01 Aug 2019 03:48

Shadowman82 wrote:
01 Aug 2019 01:20
Well I said limitations that CD imposes upon itself , crappy mastering being one of them . They could master CDs they way they did in the late 80s but hardly no CD releases these days are mastered like that . Sure it's convenient but it also causes listening fatigue .
Mastering quality is not a limitation of CD nor that CD imposes upon itself. Actually vinyl imposes more limitations and requirements of mastering than CD. Largely due to the physics involved with vinyl.

Shadowman82
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Re: Why can't digital sound as 'warm' as analog?

Post by Shadowman82 » 04 Aug 2019 23:20

What I meant is the fact that CDs end up sounding bad do to poor mastering is an limitations it imposes on itself . I guess we could call that a human limitations as mastering engineers seem to be incapable of convincing those that make the decisions that CDs should be mastered better .

Issuesman666
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Re: Why can't digital sound as 'warm' as analog?

Post by Issuesman666 » 04 Aug 2019 23:53

There are good LP's and bad LP's.

There are good CD's and bad CD'S

There are people who love music on any format.

There are people who love to whine and bash CD/Digital because in their mind nothing beats vinyl.

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Re: Why can't digital sound as 'warm' as analog?

Post by NOYB » 05 Aug 2019 00:30

Nigel Gomez wrote:
04 Aug 2019 23:53
There are people who love to whine and bash CD/Digital because in their mind nothing beats vinyl.
And with all the flaws and limitations of vinyl it doesn't take much to beat it. Simply a good digitization of vinyl with some of the objectionable artifacts removed beats vinyl.

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Re: Why can't digital sound as 'warm' as analog?

Post by NOYB » 05 Aug 2019 01:23

Shadowman82 wrote:
04 Aug 2019 23:20
What I meant is the fact that CDs end up sounding bad do to poor mastering is an limitations it imposes on itself .
CD's do not impose any such limitation on itself.
Shadowman82 wrote:
04 Aug 2019 23:20
I guess we could call that a human limitations as mastering engineers seem to be incapable of convincing those that make the decisions that CDs should be mastered better .
Bingo!! It's the people and what they are doing and how they are using the technology. Not the technology itself.

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Re: Why can't digital sound as 'warm' as analog?

Post by Sterling1 » 06 Aug 2019 10:43

NOYB wrote:
05 Aug 2019 00:30
Nigel Gomez wrote:
04 Aug 2019 23:53
There are people who love to whine and bash CD/Digital because in their mind nothing beats vinyl.
And with all the flaws and limitations of vinyl it doesn't take much to beat it. Simply a good digitization of vinyl with some of the objectionable artifacts removed beats vinyl.
Yeah, for the most part, the LPs I've digitized and placed in my iTunes Library sound better than the LPs from which the digitizations were made; plus, I get great convenience and mobile pleasure from the digitizations, as well as equalization to taste. Experiments I've done suggest I'm most pleased with digitization of LPs which were produced originally from tape masters. Thus, I've precluded most of my LP to iTunes work to music from LPs that I've inherited.

Shadowman82
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Re: Why can't digital sound as 'warm' as analog?

Post by Shadowman82 » 06 Aug 2019 22:59

There are people who love to whine and bash CD/Digital because in their mind nothing beats vinyl.
There are several things that can beat Vinyl assuming they are mastered well . SA-CD or perhaps a hi-res FLAAC file for example . But since the music I like is not available in either of those i can either go for the Vinyl or a poorly mastered CD , which one would you pick ?

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Re: Why can't digital sound as 'warm' as analog?

Post by NOYB » 06 Aug 2019 23:46

Shadowman82 wrote:
06 Aug 2019 22:59
There are people who love to whine and bash CD/Digital because in their mind nothing beats vinyl.
There are several things that can beat Vinyl assuming they are mastered well . SA-CD or perhaps a hi-res FLAAC file for example . But since the music I like is not available in either of those i can either go for the Vinyl or a poorly mastered CD , which one would you pick ?
"Poorly mastered" leaves quite a wide range. So depends on how poorly mastered and objectionable it is. But if I went for the Vinyl I'd digitize it. And do any cleanup if I felt necessary. So in the end it would be digital either way.

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Re: Why can't digital sound as 'warm' as analog?

Post by XJ99 » 07 Aug 2019 04:22

Dang people are hardcore! I used to record my vinyl on to cassettes!
I wanted to preserve my vinyl back in the day. Now I just enjoy it!

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Re: Why can't digital sound as 'warm' as analog?

Post by NOYB » 07 Aug 2019 04:51

Me too. Glad I did because now the vinyl is still in great condition for digitizing.

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Re: Why can't digital sound as 'warm' as analog?

Post by Sterling1 » 07 Aug 2019 13:49

Shadowman82 wrote:
06 Aug 2019 22:59
There are people who love to whine and bash CD/Digital because in their mind nothing beats vinyl.
There are several things that can beat Vinyl assuming they are mastered well . SA-CD or perhaps a hi-res FLAAC file for example . But since the music I like is not available in either of those i can either go for the Vinyl or a poorly mastered CD , which one would you pick ?
I've got a system that handles just about every format you can throw at it; and, from experience, I no longer believe there's a format hierarchy which is absolute or even meaningful when how what's laid to the format appears to better determine satisfaction. Thus, these blanket arguments presented here for a format preference do not seem to be particularly trustworthy. The bottom line for me is I listen to music presented to me by Apple Music which, if liked, I download and enjoy, no thought to running out and buying the music on CD, LP, SACD, or other. The only thing I buy are multi-channel SACDs, since multi-channel downloads of the music I like are too difficult to play gaplessly.

Issuesman666
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Re: Why can't digital sound as 'warm' as analog?

Post by Issuesman666 » 07 Aug 2019 23:51

XJ99 wrote:
07 Aug 2019 04:22
Dang people are hardcore! I used to record my vinyl on to cassettes!
I wanted to preserve my vinyl back in the day. Now I just enjoy it!
Digitizing sucks all the fun out of vinyl records.

If I want digital I buy digital.

My records are for enjoyment to play as a record.

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Re: Why can't digital sound as 'warm' as analog?

Post by eliash » 08 Aug 2019 05:17

Nigel Gomez wrote:
07 Aug 2019 23:51
XJ99 wrote:
07 Aug 2019 04:22
Dang people are hardcore! I used to record my vinyl on to cassettes!
I wanted to preserve my vinyl back in the day. Now I just enjoy it!
Digitizing sucks all the fun out of vinyl records.

If I want digital I buy digital.

My records are for enjoyment to play as a record.
Yeah, I agree...it´s a ceremony...and rationally asked why, Peak-to-Loudness mastering is more often better...

NOYB
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Re: Why can't digital sound as 'warm' as analog?

Post by NOYB » 08 Aug 2019 23:38

Nigel Gomez wrote:
07 Aug 2019 23:51
XJ99 wrote:
07 Aug 2019 04:22
Dang people are hardcore! I used to record my vinyl on to cassettes!
I wanted to preserve my vinyl back in the day. Now I just enjoy it!
Digitizing sucks all the fun out of vinyl records.

If I want digital I buy digital.

My records are for enjoyment to play as a record.
Apparently some people are easily amused by a spinning label. J/K
As child I tried to read them as they spun around.

Not all music is available in digital format.

My records are for the purpose of listening to the content. Digitizing them means it will get listened to much more and in multiple environments. For me 3 main environments are home HiFi, carFi, NoFi (notebook).
Roberto C2H3 wrote:
08 Aug 2019 18:59
Why can't digital sound as 'warm' as analog? Because of psychoacoustics.
The question itself is a fallacy. There is no practical limit to how closely digital can sound to analog. The OP clarified the subject to actually be published CD vs. published vinyl of the same work. The answer is that they can sound as warm as vinyl and maybe they would if the contents were actually the same. The difference seems to usually be more to do with the contents than the format.

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