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mm vs mc

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mm vs mc

Postby wayneg » 06 Feb 2013 22:58

what is the gain in switching to mc,if i go to a high output moving coil that doesnt require a step up will i notice a measurable diference ?
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Re: mm vs mc

Postby Mark E Smith's Dentist » 06 Feb 2013 23:22

That depends on what MM you have and what HOMC you plan to change to. You could end up with a measurably worse difference. It's really not that black and white. There are great MMs and terrible MCs.

Not only that, you could get a good MC that doesn't match well with your arm - a friend of mine got a Denon 103, put it on a low mass unipivot and judged it on ten minutes of use straight out the box.


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Re: mm vs mc

Postby E.Man » 07 Feb 2013 01:30

I noticed enough difference going from MM to hoMC to keep going to loMC.
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Re: mm vs mc

Postby wayneg » 07 Feb 2013 02:15

I'm currently using an m91ed , it's sounds decent but I want to hear more seperation and better detail instrumentaly
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Re: mm vs mc

Postby wayneg » 07 Feb 2013 02:18

I don't want to get too elaborate since I'm only using a dual 1257, but I'm sure with the right cart I can get nice music out of this machine
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Re: mm vs mc

Postby dlaloum » 07 Feb 2013 04:08

There is no real difference between MM and MC, the best of either genre are very very good - the worst of either... well lets not go there!

At the bottom end it is cheaper to make an MM than an MC - hence MM's dominate the cheapies.

Once you get over around $250 they are equal technologies.

There are fewer current manufacturers of true top end MM's but they do exist (Soundsmith, Audio Technica, Clearaudio, Ortofon, Grado...)

If you are planning on keeping things relatively economical - stay with MM - you will get better performance per $ both from the cartridge and from the phono stage, as both are easier and more economical to manufacture at that level.

High Output MC's have the advantage of using the more economical MM phono stages - not a bad thing!
For the most part, HOMC's are limited to the lower end and mid range of MC's - but Benz-Micro also makes some of their better MC's in HO versions... (Ebony H $3,500).

Getting the best from a high output cartridge (whether MM or MC) requires a phono stage designed for that purpose - many top end phono stages excel with (LO) MC but are only so-so with MM/HOMC. (making some of the comparison reviews a bit questionable...)

Final comment - getting MM fully optimised is in some ways more complicated, as it requires both capacitive and resistive loading, whereas MC's are mostly only resistive loading sensitive.

hope that helps

bye for now

David
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Re: mm vs mc

Postby wayneg » 07 Feb 2013 15:02

i noticed last night while playing an album i moved the pre amp and all of a sudden i got a loud humming,so i moved the tt output cables and it went away,i think im losing fidelity through the factory dual wires,i have upgrades on thier way
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Re: mm vs mc

Postby Brianev » 08 Feb 2013 00:41

wayneg wrote:I'm currently using an m91ed , it's sounds decent but I want to hear more seperation and better detail instrumentaly


Hi, if you can run to it the AT33EV cart has one of the best channel separations and very good detail. It's low output, so you will need a phono pre amp that can handle it.
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Re: mm vs mc

Postby lini » 08 Feb 2013 01:18

wg: Sorry, but your Dual is not really designed for the majority of MCs (at all, and even less available) - the arm is rather designed for light, high to very high compliance designs, the majority of which rather are MMs and MIs. So I'd rather suggest to consider a better MM/MI instead...

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Re: mm vs mc

Postby fftulip » 11 Feb 2013 23:32

I am not sure what you mean by "gain", but if you are talking about signal output, most high output MC's will be noticeably less output than the typical MM, though it should still be enough for a MM preamp. If you mean sound quality, the other posts have that covered fairly well.
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Re: mm vs mc

Postby cafe latte » 12 Feb 2013 08:50

It depends what you spend. Yes a lot of MC are better than MM, but saying that I doubt many MC sounds as good as a Decca super gold which is a MM. I have just bought a Dynavector 17d3 (MC)which is a stunning cart but it is not so stunning that it would make me sell my Decca. I also have recently bought a Nagaoka mp500 which again is a MM (got quite a bargin on it actually) and again in my opinion it will beat many MC at least those for similar money. Unless you are going to spend big bucks on a MC you may find that MM and MI are just as good or better, saying this you will need a lot of saved pennies for the top of the range Decca london reference at 3690 dollars!!! and this again is a MM which wont be better by many MC at all http://www.decibelhifi.com.au/brands/LONDON-(DECCA).html
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Re: mm vs mc

Postby wayneg » 12 Feb 2013 14:25

im looking at a used grado reference series moving iron,so far the bids are within reason,but i wont go over a hundred for a used cart
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Re: mm vs mc

Postby cafe latte » 12 Feb 2013 22:43

wayneg wrote:im looking at a used grado reference series moving iron,so far the bids are within reason,but i wont go over a hundred for a used cart

I have a Grado reference platinum too in my collection which I bought used from a member here for 150 dollars. It is ok but really not that detailed. Grado are also prone to hum on some turntables so check if your TT is one that they hum on. Considering the new price of these carts they have quite a poor stylus. I am keeping mine as in the future I plan to send it off for a retip as apparently they are much better with a paratrace stylus on them. Why would you only spend up to 100 dollars on a used cart also? The cheapest retip soundsmith does is 150 dollars so with this in mind you can buy quite a nice cart used and if you are unlucky and it needs a retip it is really not the end of the world. My Dynavector 17d3 cost me 550 dollars used, but it is a 1200 dollar cart new and the stylus is perfect.
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Re: mm vs mc

Postby wayneg » 12 Feb 2013 23:25

Mainly because I'm putting. It on a dual 1257, later down the road when I get a big boy TT I'll splurge on a nice cart
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Re: mm vs mc

Postby wayneg » 12 Feb 2013 23:31

If I win the bid on a nice dual ,then I'll have something to work with , and from what I can see it has a v15 on it, don't think the guy knows anything about turntables, his main store is mostly antiques
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