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Vintage Dual 621 turntable 1978 - $45

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Vintage Dual 621 turntable 1978 - $45

Postby daydayy » 07 Jan 2013 00:56

i'm trying to upgrade from my cheap denon dp 29f to something that uses a decent cartridge/stylus. i am only now learning about all the different vintage decks out there. does anyone have anything good or bad to say about this deal? looks pretty nice to me, and i'm thinking about driving up to see it tomorrow.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/ele/3515024207.html
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Re: Vintage Dual 621 turntable 1978 - $45

Postby Alec124c41 » 07 Jan 2013 01:20

Grab it.
Manual is here: http://www.vinylengine.com/library/dual/621.shtml
We can help you get it in shape.

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Re: Vintage Dual 621 turntable 1978 - $45

Postby daydayy » 07 Jan 2013 02:57

it's really nice to know i can get help like this here.
looking ahead, i've learned here in the past couple days that not all phono inputs are created equal. i recently bought a new receiver, (Onkyo TX-8050), with a phono input, knowing that i wanted that feature, among others. well i just checked the manual, and the phono input on my receiver is for a MM. does that mean i cannot use a MC cartridge? just wondering if i'll have to expect the added expense of a phono preamp.
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Re: Vintage Dual 621 turntable 1978 - $45

Postby Alec124c41 » 07 Jan 2013 05:57

You can use a HOMC, high output moving coil, into a MM input.
Note that many LOMC cartridges have a low compliance, which makes them suitable for a heavier tone-arm.

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Re: Vintage Dual 621 turntable 1978 - $45

Postby daydayy » 07 Jan 2013 06:21

your first sentence made perfect sense, but the second one went right over my head! i have a lot to learn!
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Re: Vintage Dual 621 turntable 1978 - $45

Postby Alec124c41 » 07 Jan 2013 07:02

Compliance is the stiffness of the stylus suspension. Putting a low-compliance cartridge, like a Denon DL-103, on that arm, would be like putting truck springs in a Mini.

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Re: Vintage Dual 621 turntable 1978 - $45

Postby mrow2 » 07 Jan 2013 08:30

No deals like that around these parts.... except for the 1237 I just got for about the same. Great find!
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Re: Vintage Dual 621 turntable 1978 - $45

Postby daydayy » 07 Jan 2013 15:30

Compliance - got it!
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Re: Vintage Dual 621 turntable 1978 - $45

Postby daydayy » 07 Jan 2013 16:11

but i'm not sure how to tell if the tone arm on the 621 is heavy or not.
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Re: Vintage Dual 621 turntable 1978 - $45

Postby Alec124c41 » 07 Jan 2013 22:50

daydayy wrote:but i'm not sure how to tell if the tone arm on the 621 is heavy or not.


It is not. A DL-103 would not be compatible. A DL-110 might be.

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Re: Vintage Dual 621 turntable 1978 - $45

Postby daydayy » 07 Jan 2013 23:55

ok. well it may be a moot point as the seller of the 621 has been non responsive to my inquiring e-mails. strange.
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Re: Vintage Dual 621 turntable 1978 - $45

Postby daydayy » 08 Jan 2013 04:45

still no reply from the seller of the 621. frustrating. but there are some others available in the area.

Vintage Dual 1019 Turntable Rare Shure Cartridge Original Packaging - $175
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/ele/3493875797.html

VINTAGE PANASONIC RD 7703 TURNTABLE - $40
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/ele/3490372233.html

Dual 506 Turntable - $199
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/ele/3515416290.html

Beautiful Vintage Dual 1237 Belt Drive Turntable - $125
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/ele/3445580797.html

Dual 1219 Turntable with custom wood base - $275
http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/ele/3416263492.html
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Re: Vintage Dual 621 turntable 1978 - $45

Postby daydayy » 09 Jan 2013 03:14

I was able to get in touch with the seller on that 621, and I did indeed buy it. Just got home with it and it looks wonderful! Now to decide on a cartdridge. Any recommendations would be appreciated.
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Re: Vintage Dual 621 turntable 1978 - $45

Postby bpbutler » 09 Jan 2013 04:03

Congrats on your purchase. Sad you didn't go with the 1237, but if your 621 is in good shape, it looks like a good deal. Externally, it looks a lot like my 1237. I think the tonearm is exactly the same.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I had tried a high compliance P-mount cartridge (with adapter) and it didn't perform very well. I think the effective mass of these tonearms is too high. The cartridge that does work well for me is an AT11E, which you can't buy new anymore (you can find used ones sometimes on ebay). Since I can't find effective mass specs for the Dual tonearm, nor compliance specs for the AT11E, it's hard to say for sure. My guess would be to stay below 15.

The AT120E/T might be a good choice. I purchased one recently, but haven't had time to check it out on my 1237, but probably will eventually.
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Re: Vintage Dual 621 turntable 1978 - $45

Postby lini » 13 Jan 2013 03:48

Effective mass of that type of pre-ULM arm was roundabout 12 g, but cart compatibility would also depend on whether it's got the regular counterweight or the one with the integrated anitiresonator (and whether that still works). With the latter one will have a wider choice of suitable carts.

bpb: One problem with good T4P/P-mount carts already is that these typically are high to very high compliance, but the weight isn't that low - namely 6 g for the cart itself plus ~ 1.7 g for the halfinch-mount adaptor. So especially on the arms without the antiresonator counterweight the resonance frequency will be rather low and hardly dampened. In addition, a T4P cart plus halfinch-mount adaptor will typically also be rather high (~ 20 mm) and automatically mean one extra contact transition.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

P.S.: bpb: Don't forget that the "Japan style" specs at 100 Hz are not quite comparable to the otherwise usual specs for dynamic compliance at 10 Hz. So for the latter spec style staying below 15 cu would rather mean erring in the opposite direction...
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