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Lubrication

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Lubrication

Postby dgparker92 » 19 Oct 2011 15:50

I recently bought a Dual 1019 TT and I want to clean and then lubricate all of the places pointed out in the manual. What should I use to clean? The manual tells you what to use but it is also almost 50 years old. Any suggestions on what to use for cleaning and lubrication?
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Re: Lubrication

Postby jlbruyelle » 19 Oct 2011 18:06

Hi, the oils quoted in the service manual are not available anymore, as was to be expected, but more modern equivalent exist. This topic has been addressed several times already, you can find information at the end of this topic. You can also find a lubrication kit on the bay, that is dedicated to the 1019 and is not overly expensive - don't know how well it fits though, I have not tried it myself. OTOH I did try the 10W30 motor oil that is often recommended on the web, and I have never it to give good results: not sticky enough, and too thin in my experience. YMMV.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Lubrication

Postby mrow2 » 25 Oct 2011 07:05

The kit is at Gar A Records online, $25. Has several lubes in it. Trouble is, these old lubes get gummy and dirty so need to be cleared away mostly, then you can smear some new stuff where the old stuff was. The parts need to be worked so that they move smoothly. Don't use non-plastics-safe lubes on any plastic parts. The lubes are a real problem here in our dry climate, and I rarely see one that works right.
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Re: Lubrication

Postby gridleakrick » 28 Oct 2011 06:37

In all the turntables I rebuild, I use just two lubricants; SuperLube Synthetic Grease and SuperLube oil. They are synthetic lubricants with Teflon, plastic safe and will never dry out or gum up like the original factory lubricants.
As others have mentioned, it is important to remove ALL traces of the old grease. Otherwise it will just gum up again, stick the mechanical pieces together again and you'll be back where you started. WD-40, penetrating oil, etc. may SEEM to work by redissolving the old grease but once they evaporate, as they eventually will, the old grease will eventually harden up again.
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Re: Lubrication

Postby dgparker92 » 06 Nov 2011 03:45

Hello gridleakrick
I have found several items listed under SuperLube Synthetic Grease and SuperLube Oil. Can you give me some more information on these two items?
Thanks
Gary
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Re: Lubrication

Postby Sheilajeanne » 06 Nov 2011 05:25

So what IS the best way to remove old grease? Would it work to use WD40 to dissolve the grease, then wipe it off carefully?
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Re: Lubrication

Postby Alec124c41 » 06 Nov 2011 06:25

WD-40 can be used for cleaning, but is not a substitute for proper lubrication.

Cheers,
Alec
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Re: Lubrication

Postby gridleakrick » 06 Nov 2011 11:10

Gary,
The SuperLube grease I have is Item No. 21030 in a grey plastic 3 oz. tube. It's label says SuperLube Synthetic Grease with Syncolon (PTFE) Multi-Purpose Lubricant. The oil is in a 0.25 oz. clear plastic tube with a metal pocket clip, about 0.5" dia. x 4" long with a thin dispenser tip and cap. It's label says SuperLube Multi-Purpose Synthetic-Based Oil With Teflon. Item number is 51010. They both also are available in larger containers. Hope this helps. See their catalog at super-lube.com Here's a link to their catalog
http://www.super-lube.com/files/pdfs/su ... atalog.pdf
Industrial suppliers should have it-like Grainger or McMaster-Carr. Also, try bicycle and motorcycle shops.

I have found the best way to remove old dried up grease is with iso alcohol and mineral spirits with qtips and paper towels. Sometimes I use a popsicle stick cut to a chisel shape to scrape off stubborn grease.
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Re: Lubrication

Postby Sheilajeanne » 10 Nov 2011 03:12

So, I finally got the Red Ed cartridge and stylus for my Dual 1209, and am ready to start restoring it.

Today, I went in search of lubes. Nearly everything I found was for automotive use, or for things like motorbikes, snowmobiles and snowblowers. I couldn't find silicone lube in small quantities. All the had was large spray cans. I did, however, bring home a small tube of graphite lube, and another tube of synthetic grease.

Then, I go searching the forums, and find that lubrication seems to be a rather hot-button topic. An old post from Whitneyville says this:

...you can get all that done for you with LaBelle lubes. Like I say, you'll do what you want if I got the ex-oil lab lube techs from Cities Service here to tell you differently. Have fun, and when you need new bearings you can buy them... Motor oils have no business in anything but an internal combustion engine and GL hypoid lubes have no place but in hypoid gear boxes. I bet someone will suggest hydraulic fluid next!

viewtopic.php?p=180770#p180770

I then remembered that I had a link bookmarked on my computer, titled Keeping Your Dual alive. I checked it out, and what do I find?

THIS diagram! :shock:

:lol: When it comes to advice from the experts, it looks like I'm very much on my own!

Will graphite work for any plastic moving parts? And what about the grease? It's Ultra Slick Extreme Sport synthetic. I thought the Extreme Sport would be better than the regular, as it's recommended for snowmobiles and snowblowers, therefore is likely lower viscosity than their regular grease.
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Re: Lubrication

Postby fscl » 11 Nov 2011 01:28

Here's another Dual lubrication thread, which touches on many of the same points on this topic:

viewtopic.php?t=36025

Will most likely break down and purchase the G-A-R lube kit for the Dual 1019 refirb.

Fred
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Re: Lubrication

Postby dualref » 27 Nov 2011 09:31

It is important to use the right lubes on Dual turntables. At the bottom of the page in this link are some modern day equivalents that work well:

http://dual-reference.com/Troubles/1200lube.htm

I use Isopropyl Alcohol and a Q-tip to scrape off all the old lubricants.
Just take your time and work slowly making sure you get rid of all the old stuff before applying new. Also, the photo in the link would be appropriate
for your 1209 as well. Just make sure to apply the lubricants very sparingly
and DON'T lubricate anything that is not listed in the diagram. Some parts rely on friction to work properly. An over lubricated Dual can be worse than one that is not lubricated at all. The lubricants listed in the link will also outlast the original ones specified.
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Re: Lubrication

Postby Sheilajeanne » 28 Nov 2011 19:32

dualref, you REALLY didn't get the point of my post above, did you?

I quoted a member who said 'Motor oils have no business in anything but an internal combustion engine', THEN linked to that same lube diagram you linked to, which recommended...guess what?? ](*,)

YES, 10W30 MOTOR OIL, which, the last time I looked was exactly what they put in my SUV crankcase when I had an oil change last week! (Except I didn't feel like shelling out $80 for the synthetic stuff!) :roll:
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Re: Lubrication

Postby dualref » 28 Nov 2011 20:14

dualref, you REALLY didn't get the point of my post above, did you?

I don't care what your point is, I wasn't referring to it anyway. I just made a generalized statement concerning points to think about when cleaning and relubricating a Dual turntable.

If you didn't like what I said, tough. You don't like 10W-30. Fine, I just didn't make up those lube replacements in my head. They are there after talking to many shop owners that overhaul/repair Dual turntables and that's what they use. So make of it what you will.
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Re: Lubrication

Postby Sheilajeanne » 28 Nov 2011 21:50

So, you're the one that made up that list of alternatives for the original lubricants?

My apologies for stepping on your toes. And I have nothing against 10W-30. It's just that others experts on the forum don't agree with your choices.

As a total noob to this, who do I believe? :-?
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Re: Lubrication

Postby JaS » 29 Nov 2011 02:49

Sheilajeanne wrote:My apologies for stepping on your toes. And I have nothing against 10W-30. It's just that others experts on the forum don't agree with your choices.

Do not believe Whitneyville, ever :lol: He is not an 'expert' on anything and his comments relating to oil are nonsense, as are many of his other posts. FWIW here is a list of oils recommended by a selection of turntable manufacturers, which include machine, engine and gearbox oils.

Alphason - oil (type/viscosity not stated)

Ariston - light machine oil

Avid - designed to run dry (do not add lubricants)

BSR - light machine oil

Connoisseur - lubricating oil (type/viscosity not stated)

Dual (various models) - Renotac 342 'tacky oil' (special lubricant for plain bearings)

Empire - 3 and 1 (SAE20)

FONS - not specified

Heybrook - special oil (type/viscosity not stated)

JVC - not specified

Linn - special oil (the bearing is subject to two and a half tons pressure per square inch. Linn oil is specifically formulated to eliminate the microscopic welds that can occur at that pressure)

Luxman - not specified (most sealed DD)

Manticore - main bearing oil (type/viscosity not stated)

Michell - synthetic bearing oil (viscosity not stated)

Micro Seiki - not specified (some BD/DD are sealed)

Mission - not specified (note PTFE bushing)

NAD - SAE80/90 (Rega based) / fine machine oil (5120)

Nottingham Analogue - bearing oil / Kinetic Enhancement oil (type/viscosity not stated)

QED - not specified

Rabco - not specified

RCA - SAE20 machine oil

Rega - Comma Hypoid EP80, Castrol EPX80w/90 or Shell Spirax EP90

Rek-O Kut - SAE20 motor oil

Revolver- main bearing oil (type/viscosity not stated)

Rotel - not specified

Roksan - main bearing oil (type/viscosity not stated)

Russco - SAE30 automotive oil (lubriplate on ball every 3 months)

Sonab - not specified

Sonographe - non specified (Turcite self lubricating bearing cup)

Source - bearing oil (type/viscosity not stated)

Systemdek - SAE90 Hypoid gear oil

Technics - SFW0 010 (SAE20)

Thorens ISO46 turbine oil (SAE20) (early models) or Titan Super Syn Oil (most late models)

Townshend - bearing oil (type/viscosity not stated)

Transcriptors - motor oil (viscosity not stated)

Voyd - bearing oil (type/viscosity not stated)

VPi - SAE40 motor oil (or Slick 50 - was SAE30 now multigrade)

Regards,
JaS
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