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Cartridge For A Sme 3009?

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Cartridge For A Sme 3009?

Postby MrSoreto » 17 Jul 2011 18:08

Hi, I bought a SME 3009 for my Thorens TD160, it's a Series 2 improved with fixed headshell.

Now I need the right cart to suit it.
Any thoughts on the matter?
I was thinking in a price range of about €100-€200.(certainly not higher right now)

(I listen all sorts of genres, from Jazz to Rock and from R&B to classical, so a cartridge that performs well all around would be nice)

Thanks!
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Postby Kei-86 » 17 Jul 2011 18:27

From what i've seen/read it will need to be a high compliance cartridge as that version of the SME is super light at 6.5g. I asked a similar question and i got told that my shure M75ED Type 2 and ortofon VMS 20E Mk II cartridges were both ideal. I bought a Jico SAS stylus for the shure cartridge (which i will be collecting from the post depot tomorrow after paying the customs charge :x) The sound has been fine for me so far using just the standard elliptical stylus. A shure V15 might be pretty good, especially paired with a good line contact stylus.

From the range of new cartridges you might struggle as most modern arms are medium mass. I've seen some people say the audio techinca AT440MLa is a good match but slightly bright.
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Postby MrSoreto » 17 Jul 2011 19:41

Thanks, I'll look into that Shure and Ortofon!

Meanwhile I've been interested in trying a Denon DL-110 or DL-160 for some time. Could this cartridge work on my SME?
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Postby scho2684 » 17 Jul 2011 20:36

Hi,

I'm certainly no expert on this, but the Denons needs high mass arms, so no, this will be no match.

I think you have to search more into the non MC carts, or at least high compliance carts (MC example is the Dynavector DV-20 A)
The cartridge database is a guideline, although the results are not always limited to what the database suggest.

You can add some mass to the cartridge to make it more compatible with the arm if the cart mass is to low.

Marco
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Postby steve195527 » 17 Jul 2011 20:46

scho2684 wrote:Hi,

I'm certainly no expert on this, but the Denons needs high mass arms, so no, this will be no match.

I think you have to search more into the non MC carts, or at least high compliance carts (MC example is the Dynavector DV-20 A)
The cartridge database is a guideline, although the results are not always limited to what the database suggest.

You can add some mass to the cartridge to make it more compatible with the arm if the cart mass is to low.

Marco

some of the denons work well in lighter arms:-the 304 is pretty high compliance,even though if you read its spec it doesn't seem so:-its measured a different way than is the norm!(@100hz)
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Postby MrSoreto » 17 Jul 2011 20:56

I believe that is true for most Denon cartridges. But the DL-110 and DL-160 have a higher compliance than most Denon cartridges. (a compliance of 14, I think this is due to the fact they are high-output MC carts)

I found this formula, though I'm not sure it is correct:

Resonant Frequency = 1000/[6.28*square root (M*C)]. Where M is the mass of the arm and cartridge and C is the compliance of the cartridge.


If I enter the mass of my tonearm/cartridge and the compliance of the DL-160 I get a resonant frequency of 12,66Hz. Which sits in the 10 to 14Hz range.


But I'm very new to this all, so maybe I'm just stabbing wildly into the dark..
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Postby Kei-86 » 17 Jul 2011 22:02

I've heard some people say that one of the denon cartridges was quite good on this arm. My 3009 used to have an audio technica AT-30E moving coil cartridge which is not a particularly high compliance cartridge. I don't know how it sounded as it was before my ownership, though my dad said it was the best he'd heard from the arm.

I think cartridges are quite a personal choice as what sounds right for one person might not sound quite so good for the next. I quite like my shure with the standard elliptical and i've got my fingers crossed that the SAS fixes the few niggles i've got. (some sibilance and IGD on some records) I reckon a second hand V15 III or IV with a jico SAS stylus is probably ideal for this arm. I'll post my initial findings on it tomorrow after i try it out.
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Postby VinylIsTheBest » 18 Jul 2011 03:54

I have a SME 3009 II Improved arm. The cartridges I used are a Shure M97xE with a JICO SAS stylus, Audio Technica AT-440MLa and a Denon 301 MKII (low out moving coil, high compliance). I like the Denon the best out of the bunch. Bought it at Comet Supply (they have the best prices).

Other cartridges that would work are, Ortofon 2M series, Ortofon OM series. You can upgrade these cartridges by changing the stylus.

I highly suggest that you get the FD-200 Fluid Dampen kit for it. The arm comes alive when installed. Using 50K fluid in it.
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Postby MrSoreto » 18 Jul 2011 08:26

Thanks guys!

That Fluid Dampen kit was something I was already considering. Is there any place I can just buy one? Or do need to keep a lookout at ebay?
I also read about the steel/bronze knife bearing mod, would this change the arms effective mass?



I can't seem to find a definitive figure on the DL-160 compliance. Depending on where I look it is stated as 10, 14, and even 18. My guess is that it's 10 at 100Hz, and probably somewhere between 14-18 at 10HZ?
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Postby VinylIsTheBest » 18 Jul 2011 23:23

SME doesn't make the FD-200 kit for 3009 arms anymore. I bought mine on U.K. Ebay (they have more SME items). Make sure it's complete, uses a different cueing lever.

When compliance is stated at 100Hz. I multiply the dynamic figure by 1.8, some say multiply by 1.7. If you use these figures you will be at the correct compliance. The Denon DL-160 would have a compliance around 18.

I have installed the bronze bearing. Sounds a little bit better. The thing I noticed the most is that bearing friction is reduced. More sensitive to changes in VTF.

The FD-200 kit makes the biggest improvement.

When using headshell weights make sure they are not magnetized. The Technics 3 gram headshell weight is a bad thing to use with moving coil cartridges. Just take a magnet to it and you will know. Aluminum or stainless steel are the best.
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Postby Paiboon Pokpoon » 19 Jul 2011 05:26

I saw a friend of mine use a Denon DL-103 with his SME 3009 and it sounded great (I sit and listened to music produced by this combination in his listening room for hours). For just US $180 max, I think the Denon DL-103 is a great buy. Or if you can pay more, the DL-103R is another good choice and is more interesting. :)
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Postby Rap » 19 Jul 2011 08:39

I don't think a dl103 is optimal for a 3009 improved.
I use to use a 103 on a non-improved 3009 II with heavy head shell until it became a casualty of the cleaners duster.
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Postby kelvinMunson » 19 Jul 2011 10:22

Marriage made in heaven................ SME3009 Series II improved and Shure V15III with a JICO SAS stylus


:D
Thorens TD521, SME3012, Dynavector DV-20X,Thorens TD150, SME3009, Shure V15III
Pro-Ject Phonobox SE, Creek OBH 18,
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Castle Chester,
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Postby Paiboon Pokpoon » 19 Jul 2011 12:00

Rap wrote:I don't think a dl103 is optimal for a 3009 improved.
I use to use a 103 on a non-improved 3009 II with heavy head shell until it became a casualty of the cleaners duster.

Neither do I. And I don't know if my friend's SME 3009 is an improved version. As far as I'm concerned and according to its specifications, the DL-103 is of very low compliance and should be mated with a high-mass tonearm. Anyway, it worked a treat with my friend's turntable system. :)
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