Best Belt Supplier For Td-124

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martin_kbh
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Best belt supplier for TD-124

Post by martin_kbh » 01 Jun 2010 13:36

I need a new belt...well I have three but they seem to vary a lot in terms of noise and quality....all purchased from various Ebay’ers
One of them is almost completely noise free..but leaves me wondering if it could get even better??

Hmm...What should I expect and which supplier should I use?

(TD-124 MKI, lowered motor, fully refurbished, magnetic platter, SME 3009 SII, DL103)

PeterBeo
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Post by PeterBeo » 01 Jun 2010 20:49

Try Frede Kristiansen at http://www.classic-audio.dk/content/portal.html . He restored my Beogram 3000 Thorens.

utahusker
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Post by utahusker » 02 Jun 2010 20:44

William Thakker on eBay has genuine Thorens belts. They're expensive but worth the extra $.

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Post by kennedykr » 28 Oct 2010 17:14

Martin, who made your quietest belt? I have a new Thorens belt from Thakker and can't say I am terribly impressed. It's pretty noisy.

Thanks..

awl1
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Post by awl1 » 02 Nov 2010 23:04

I've had a few cheap belts from eBay and found them to be no good at all.

I've just received two new belts from Technical and General in the UK and they're superb. I talked to Dennis Burke on the phone before ordering and he explained that as well as being the wrong size, many cheap replacement belts aren't made from the correct type of rubber. The ones he supplies are made by the same company who've always made Thorens belts, so are completely to the original spec. and come with the Thorens logo printed onto the side of them. They're not cheap (approx £20 each), but I've learned from experience that buying anything else is a waste of money.

technical-and-general@fsmail.net
+44 (0)1892 654534

Andrew

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Post by kennedykr » 03 Nov 2010 05:01

awl1 wrote:I've had a few cheap belts from eBay and found them to be no good at all.

I've just received two new belts from Technical and General in the UK and they're superb. I talked to Dennis Burke on the phone before ordering and he explained that as well as being the wrong size, many cheap replacement belts aren't made from the correct type of rubber. The ones he supplies are made by the same company who've always made Thorens belts, so are completely to the original spec. and come with the Thorens logo printed onto the side of them. They're not cheap (approx £20 each), but I've learned from experience that buying anything else is a waste of money.

technical-and-general@fsmail.net
+44 (0)1892 654534

Andrew
Have you run one of these new belts on a TT yet, and can you confirm that they are actually quiet? The belt I purchased from Thakker is a Thorens belt with the logo printed on it, and it is unusable due to noise. It is 0.036" thick versus the original which is 0.021" thick. The original belt runs very quietly and the new one generates ticking and whirring noises that are audible from a couple of feet away..

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Post by awl1 » 03 Nov 2010 11:13

I've had one of the new belts running in my TD124/II for several days now and it runs very quietly indeed. I've also found it runs closer to optimum speed than with the cheap belt, well within the range of the speed control on the deck. I bought the other belt to go in a TD135 but haven't installed it yet. Here are some measurements:

Original belt: 5.7mm x 0.775mm : 0.224" x 0.031"
eBay belt:: 5.0mm x 0.49mm : 0.197" x 0.019"
New Thorens belt: 6.0mm x 0.82mm : 0.236" x 0.032"

I've no idea how old the original belt is, but would guess 10-20 years.

Andrew

kennedykr
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Post by kennedykr » 03 Nov 2010 16:23

Hi Andrew,
Given the age of your TT and your estimate of belt age it probably isn't the original belt. The dimensions you mention don't match the dimensions of the belt on my TT at all which is the belt installed at the factory. This I know to be true as I purchased it from its original owner who told me that it had never been serviced and hadn't been used since 1971..

It seems that you are getting good performance nonetheless which I guess is the key. I have ordered a belt from turntablebasics which seems to be very close to the dimensions I measured on my antique belt. (Except for the length which is shorter in order to compensate for the stretch that occurs during initial use.

I'll keep my fingers crossed. The old belt is working just fine actually and hasn't dried out and cracked much to my surprise. The table is very quiet now.

Your new Thorens belt is close dimensionally to the one I purchased, but about 0.005" thinner than the one I have. Odd that there is such inconsistency in dimensions. It seems like mine might be a different belt (or not?) I looked for the bag the new belt came in to see if I still had it as it had a part number on it, but unfortunately it seems to have been thrown out.

I'm going to keep trying until I find the right belt and then I will purchase a life time supply, and store them in a cool, dry place.

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Post by pogo » 10 Nov 2010 17:14

awl1 wrote:I've had a few cheap belts from eBay and found them to be no good at all.

I've just received two new belts from Technical and General in the UK and they're superb. I talked to Dennis Burke on the phone before ordering and he explained that as well as being the wrong size, many cheap replacement belts aren't made from the correct type of rubber. The ones he supplies are made by the same company who've always made Thorens belts, so are completely to the original spec. and come with the Thorens logo printed onto the side of them. They're not cheap (approx £20 each), but I've learned from experience that buying anything else is a waste of money.

technical-and-general@fsmail.net
+44 (0)1892 654534

Andrew
I was so frustrated that no one seemed to know what the specs for a TD 124 belt are, that I wrote to Technical and General and asked them. Their reply (in part):

"The Thorens specification for the TD124 belt - Pt No.CB965 - is 320mm x 6mm x 0.9mm

The belts we supply are genuine Thorens product and although, as you say, they are rather expensive they are 'the real thing'. Our current price is £21.50 plus Air Mail shipment £3.20"

I believe

a) 5% strectch would yield a 13.44" belt -- my original belt measured 13.5" when I took it off.

b) These guys Have the goods if you need to have a belt marked "Thorens" and made to Thorens specs.

c) small rubber belts ain't rocket science -- No reason a properly sized $10 belt shouldn't work, but materials matter too -- A cheap belt may actually be a little less stretchy -- I'd probably order a little longer than spec. 13-13.2'. For an experiment I have a 13.3" belt on order. I expect that it will work quite well and reduce. If I'm wrong I'm out $7.50 plus postage..
c.1) If you bought a $10 belt and your turntable doesn't work right anymore the belt probably isn't the problem per se. In my case a motor refurb put things right.

d) I would not order a "TD 124" belt from anyone without first asking for dimensional information.

e) Although rubber belts stretch, a belt that's too short isn't a good thing. (This isn't a new revelation -- This is the reason I questioned people selling 12" belts for this table in the first place"

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Post by kennedykr » 10 Nov 2010 23:41

Hey Pogo,
Keep us posted! I'm still waiting for the belt I ordered to arrive, and am beginning to wonder.. The belt I ordered from Germany got here quicker, tomorrow I'm going to email about this..

FWIW neither my original nor the slightly stretched (due to use) Thorens CB965 belt I bought from Thakker measure anywhere near as long as your belts do. I'm not sure I understand why yours is so much longer than my original 43 yr old belt which measures 12.8" - it fits and definitely is not too tight. (Runs very quietly and in the middle of the speed setting range without changing the factory settings for the eddy current brake.)

My original belt btw is only 0.058mm thick and provides far better (quieter) performance than the Thorens CB965 I recently bought which is 0.9mm. Incidentally my drawings show a CB908 as being the right part number for a MKII running on 60Hz so I am not convinced that we are to the bottom of this.

The Thakker belt apparently is exactly the same belt as Technical and General is selling. I have corresponded with Technical and General and I believe whilst knowledgeable I am not convinced they have either the right belt or the correct information.

The only thing I have to base this on is a low hours original factory belt that came with my TT, and the observation that the current version of the CB965 generates unacceptable noise levels on my low hours TD-124 MKII.
Or perhaps I am too fussy.. :lol:

I am not sure I would consider the current incarnation of Thorens to be a reliable source of parts or information for a turntable that was designed a half century ago.

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Post by RedPhil » 11 Nov 2010 07:59

I'm still waiting for the belt I ordered to arrive, and am beginning to wonder.. The belt I ordered from Germany got here quicker, tomorrow I'm going to email about this..
Hi I had a replacement belt from turntable basics for my td125 - absolutely no problems with noise and everything appears to be turning at the correct speed. I seem to recall the belt did take a little while to arrive. What encouraged me about the site was that they have a different spec belt for different models whereas a lot of these ebay sellers advertise a belt suitable for every / most models something doesn't sound right to me about that!

I do have one slight issue, however since changing the belt - when I first turn the deck on the platter starts slowly and then gives a little judder on the suspension before settling into a smooth rotation - this takes only about two or three rotations and everything is Ok once things have got going. Is this normal or might the belt be a little tight

cheers

Phil

pogo
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Post by pogo » 12 Nov 2010 01:45

kennedykr wrote: FWIW neither my original nor the slightly stretched (due to use) Thorens CB965 belt I bought from Thakker measure anywhere near as long as your belts do. I'm not sure I understand why yours is so much longer than my original 43 yr old belt which measures 12.8" - it fits and definitely is not too tight.
I have two belts. One which I believe to be the original belt measures 13.5". (That would be 40 to 50 years old. I would expect it to be stretched.) The belt I bought online was 12.1" as received.
My original belt btw is only 0.058mm thick
Is this a typo? This would be 2 mils thick. I doubt that's what you meant.
Incidentally my drawings show a CB908 as being the right part number for a MKII running on 60Hz so I am not convinced that we are to the bottom of this.
a) This thread isn't specific to MKII
b) The Service manual lists two part numbers for the belt : CB965/CB908. I first thought this meant MKI/MKII, but that doesn't really seem to be the case. There are also two part numbers for the motor pulley. i'm curious whether you've ever measured the circumference of the belt path on your TT? is it the same as the 14" that I measured on my MKI
the current version of the CB965 generates unacceptable noise levels on my low hours TD-124 MKII.
You helped me, so I will try to Help you -- I refer you to item c) of my post. It is also applicable to $40 belts
Or perhaps I am too fussy.. :lol:
It's never too fussy to expect things to work the way they should.

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Post by pogo » 13 Nov 2010 00:21

kennedykr wrote:Hey Pogo,
Keep us posted!
Recieved the long belt today. 13.3" x.206". It's installed and seems just fine. Quiet and speed is fine, but I haven't made any music with it as there's currently no tonearm mounted. I would probably order a 13" belt for this table in the future -- it remains to be seen if the belt will stretch enough to begin to slip, but currently it's probably much better for the table than a tight 12" belt. A belt should be just tight enough. I'll let you know if I ever get to play music with it, or if it stretches and falls off.

kennedykr
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Post by kennedykr » 15 Nov 2010 00:34

pogo wrote:
kennedykr wrote: FWIW neither my original nor the slightly stretched (due to use) Thorens CB965 belt I bought from Thakker measure anywhere near as long as your belts do. I'm not sure I understand why yours is so much longer than my original 43 yr old belt which measures 12.8" - it fits and definitely is not too tight.
I have two belts. One which I believe to be the original belt measures 13.5". (That would be 40 to 50 years old. I would expect it to be stretched.) The belt I bought online was 12.1" as received.
My original belt btw is only 0.058mm thick
Is this a typo? This would be 2 mils thick. I doubt that's what you meant.
Incidentally my drawings show a CB908 as being the right part number for a MKII running on 60Hz so I am not convinced that we are to the bottom of this.
a) This thread isn't specific to MKII
b) The Service manual lists two part numbers for the belt : CB965/CB908. I first thought this meant MKI/MKII, but that doesn't really seem to be the case. There are also two part numbers for the motor pulley. i'm curious whether you've ever measured the circumference of the belt path on your TT? is it the same as the 14" that I measured on my MKI
the current version of the CB965 generates unacceptable noise levels on my low hours TD-124 MKII.
You helped me, so I will try to Help you -- I refer you to item c) of my post. It is also applicable to $40 belts
Or perhaps I am too fussy.. :lol:
It's never too fussy to expect things to work the way they should.
Hi Pogo,
Yeah that was a typo, that should have been 0.58mm (0.021")

I haven't measured the length of the path, but to the best of my knowledge the MKI and MKII are identical in this regard. (Not so in many other respects. Motor bushings and intermediate pulley/eddy current brake immediately spring to mind.)

I have noticed that the original belt is very elastic and stretches slightly when I install it on my table. (And recovers to exactly the same length as the new belt when removed - obviously not bad yet.) I'm still using this belt in fact, and the table is extremely quiet. The level of mechanical noise is low - it is not audible more than six inches from the top of the plinth.

I think I will probably order a slightly longer belt from turntablebasics.com based on your comments once I actually get the current belt and can see how it performs.

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Post by kennedykr » 15 Nov 2010 00:37

pogo wrote:
kennedykr wrote:Hey Pogo,
Keep us posted!
Recieved the long belt today. 13.3" x.206". It's installed and seems just fine. Quiet and speed is fine, but I haven't made any music with it as there's currently no tonearm mounted. I would probably order a 13" belt for this table in the future -- it remains to be seen if the belt will stretch enough to begin to slip, but currently it's probably much better for the table than a tight 12" belt. A belt should be just tight enough. I'll let you know if I ever get to play music with it, or if it stretches and falls off.
Much appreciated. I will be trying much the same things in all likelihood. I am sure that a looser belt as long as it does not slip or fall off can only Help as far as noise is concerned.

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