the home of the turntable

Pionner Pl-12D Or Pl-112D, Wich One To Get?

the final frontier

Pionner PL-12D or PL-112D, wich one to get?

Postby Pang99 » 26 May 2010 11:29

Hi!

I wonder how the PL-12D and PL-112D stand in The Pioneer rank?
How is these tables compared to say Technics SL-1200?
Is it any good tables at all, and wich one would you take?
Pang99
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 21 May 2010 14:21
Location: Växjö, Sweden

Postby Prana69 » 31 May 2010 08:02

Hi Pang99, and welcome.

The question of where the PL-12D and PL-112D fit in the Pioneer hierarchy is is kind of a broad question. There are better Pioneers out there, and there are worse.

The PL-12 series is legendary in that it brought a very decent quality hi-fi sound to a mass market in the 1970s. For this reason, it was one of the best selling turntables in the 1970s in terms of bang for your buck. Rock solid build quality, easy to maintain and good sound for the money.

The PL-112D and PL-12 are very similar, sharing the same mechanical foundation. The plinths (black versus dark grey) and tone-arms are slightly different, but other than that there is little difference in these turntables.

If it was my decision, I would choose the PL-12D.

I have a PL-12 and a PL-117D (which is essentially the same as the 112D but is fully automatic). The 117D looks dead-sexy and I love the one button auto function, but to be honest I think the the PL-12 sounds a bit better.

As to how these two compare with a Technics SL-1200? That's just not a fair comparison. You are comparing a high end DJ quality turntable that weighs in at 10+ kgs, is direct drive and has a list of features lacking in the PL-12 which is belt drive and weighs in at around 7kgs. It's like comparing a Volkswagen Beetle to a Porsche 911. The Beetle does a great job in it's class and for the money, but it is never going to compete with the 911.

I own a Technics SL-1200 Mk2. I paid $300 Australian for it. The PL-12 only cost me $60. The sound and build quality of the Technics are definitely better than the PL-12. But 5x better? I don't think so.

For the money, the PL-12D is an excellent choice for the vinyl lover on a budget.

You are better off paying less for the table and using the money you save to buy a better cartridge / stylus.

Good luck.
David
Prana69
member
member
contributor
 
Posts: 151
Joined: 07 Nov 2009 05:12
Location: Melbourne

Postby abril » 31 May 2010 20:06

But beware collapsed motor support grommets on the PL-12D,if they are motor drone breaks through which can be easily heard when playing a record

Been there :x
User avatar
abril
long player
long player
contributor
 
Posts: 1796
Images: 159
Joined: 13 Oct 2002 20:48
Location: Cornwall

Postby Pang99 » 09 Jun 2010 10:55

Prana69, thank you for a very good and informative answer!! You seem to know your Pioneers i must say!! =D> =D>
Pang99
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 21 May 2010 14:21
Location: Växjö, Sweden

Postby Prana69 » 14 Jun 2010 11:12

you're welcome. I do like those 1970s Pioneers.

Hope you are happy with whatever you decide to purchase. And we are always here to help with after purchase set-up tips. The key to good sound is not how much you spend, but how well you set it up. I don't know how many people I've known who've spent $$$hundreds on a table and had it sounding sh*t because they didn't take the time to set it up right.

David
Prana69
member
member
contributor
 
Posts: 151
Joined: 07 Nov 2009 05:12
Location: Melbourne

pl-12 versus pl112

Postby brian851 » 23 Jul 2010 11:03

The arm of the pl-112 is better than the one od teh Pl-12.
Turntable bearing support of the pl-12 is made of brass. The one of the pl-112d has a plastic support.
They have the same alloy platter and the same engine.
brian851
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 10
Joined: 09 Jul 2008 21:58
Location: ohio

Postby kesh » 24 Jul 2010 17:50

I was using a PL112D until a couple of weeks ago, when I found a PL12D in time-warp condition. Having tried different headshell/cartridge combinations on both, I can't detect any significant difference in sound quality between the two. I'd say the PL112D was probably re-engineered to make it easier/cheaper to mass-produce.
kesh
member
member
 
Posts: 59
Joined: 31 May 2010 19:10
Location: Manchester

Postby unidyn » 29 Aug 2010 06:26

I tend to agree that the PL series turntables that contained the PL-12 was Pioneer's best effort at incorporating as much technology for the price as possible at that time. The PL-112D was the next series and in my opinion was their re-evaluation and goal of maintaining a very strong foothold in the market (that the previous PL series established) while focusing on cost/performance considerations. My opinion is the PL-112's arm is not as sophisticated as the PL-12. Overall the newer series across the board was the beginning of what would become more about form over function. Yes, they looked all the business and did ok, but you could see part quality decreasing and flashier ads increasing. This wasn't just Pioneer mind you. Again, in my opinion Pioneer hit their peak between 1973-1974 and along with much of the mid-fi industry, began producing more for the eye and mind than the ear. I have a PL-12D, PL-15DII, PL-55X, PL-71 and (cough) PL-530 (a later series). The PL-530 would "appear" to be a great performer, but it is really rather average. The PL-15DII is superior in every way except the 15 only returns the arm where the 530 can be full auto. You can see and feel the difference. The difference in sound depends on how demanding the cartridge is. Throw a mid-level Shure on all of them and differences are minimal to none overall, but a cartridge demanding more control from the arm could begin to flesh out the differences sonically between them.
User avatar
unidyn
member
member
 
Posts: 47
Joined: 23 Jan 2010 01:08
Location: Tiffin, Ohio

Postby fscl » 07 Sep 2010 16:11

abril wrote:But beware collapsed motor support grommets on the PL-12D,if they are motor drone breaks through which can be easily heard when playing a record

Been there :x


By any chance did you see this thread:

http://vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewtopic ... ad49d975ac

When I spied the posted "Before" and "After" pictures, I immediately bought some. Makes platter mats "brand new". plumps suspension rubbers (tt and Tandberg R2R recorder, etc...) and currently have an AR belt bathing / soaking in it.

The PL-112 - 117 series were considered budget tables, I've got the PL-115 (US$120, IIRC, semi-auto; return) which served me well for 30 years did duty in Sys 1 and currently stored after being displaced by SL-QL1 and now a JVC QL 55Y.

Good luck.

Fred and if you're handy, SL-QL1s are quite reasonable on fleabay and definitely sounds better than my PL-115, if that's any help...... :)
Music is Everything....Except Predictable....WFUV Fan.
fscl
vinyl addict
vinyl addict
contributor
 
Posts: 5228
Images: 98
Joined: 05 Aug 2004 07:51
Location: CT, US

United States of America

Postby k2tree » 15 Sep 2010 22:21

Hello out there, hey I have a question on a hum I get through my speakers, but only when I play an album. sounds great with CD or tuner. Would it be my receiver (pioneer SX3800) or my turntable (pioneer PL 112D) or may be my stylus (grado FC+). Also what would be the best stylus for a PL 112D. Thanks
User avatar
k2tree
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 01 Jan 2009 21:03
Location: Wa. State

Postby fscl » 26 Sep 2010 12:45

k2tree wrote:Hello out there, hey I have a question on a hum I get through my speakers, but only when I play an album. sounds great with CD or tuner. Would it be my receiver (pioneer SX3800) or my turntable (pioneer PL 112D) or may be my stylus (grado FC+). Also what would be the best stylus for a PL 112D. Thanks


It's been a while since you've posted last. Wondering what cartridge you had on the PL last year Jan. :-k

The Grado may in fact be the source of the hum and is one of the more controversial topics here on VE. Check out this post:

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=27154

Grados illicit a Love / Hate relationship because of the "hum" factor and "experimentation / tweaking" necessary to extract beautiful performance.

Me, I have a Grado Prestige Blue w/ a recently gleaned upgrade path. Installation in Sys 1 resulted in nice sound with very slight "hum", so it's deinstalled subject to more experimentation in other turntables with synergy.

So your present combination may be resulting in "hum" synergy in the vinyl playback chain.

Good luck.

Fred and what cartridge were you running before?.... :-k and "experimentatoin" is necessary in vinyl playback..... :)
Music is Everything....Except Predictable....WFUV Fan.
fscl
vinyl addict
vinyl addict
contributor
 
Posts: 5228
Images: 98
Joined: 05 Aug 2004 07:51
Location: CT, US

United States of America

Postby Prana69 » 06 Oct 2010 02:35

unidyn wrote: The PL-15DII is superior in every way except the 15 only returns the arm where the 530 can be full auto. You can see and feel the difference.


I have to agree with this statement. Every time a PL-15 variant comes across my work-station I am amazed at the richness, depth and detail of the sound quality. There is a very distinct and noticeable difference in sound reproduction between the PL-15, it's predecessor the PL-12 range and subsequent variations in the 112, 115 and 117 ranges.

The PL-12 sounds great for a budget deck, but the PL-15 tops it. I've dropped entry level audiophile MM carts like the Shure M97Xe, Audio Technica AT95SE and the Ortofon OM10 on the PL-15, and it just sounds magical.

Off topic, but had to follow up on the comment.

Re: the Grado issue. Yep, I've heard about hum issues. I've also been very unimpressed with the audio output. A mate lent me his Grado cart (admittedly a DJ version) and it was completely dull and lifeless, even in my Technics 1200 which is renowned as a DJ deck. I couldn't believe how ordinary it was no matter how I tweaked it. I tried it in 4 different decks with the same result. Obviously work for some arms and shells, but none of mine.

D
Prana69
member
member
contributor
 
Posts: 151
Joined: 07 Nov 2009 05:12
Location: Melbourne

Return to Pioneer