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BIC turntables?

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Re: BIC turntables?

Postby fscl » 25 Jun 2013 17:05

Doug,

Have a factory installed :?: Shure V-15 TP III
14893

Have you come across this? and is there anyway to extract this cartridge from the headshell..... :-k :-k ie glue? / glue solvent?

Would like to experiment with different cartridges and use the V-15 elsewhere.

Fred
Music is Everything....Except Predictable....WFUV Fan.
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Re: BIC turntables?

Postby gator.swamp » 25 Jun 2013 18:46

Thank you for the help. I found the hole and man is it small! I spent hours trying to figure out where the loose end went before asking for help. Sometimes the obvious is not!

You sure saved me.

Thanks again, Howard
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Re: BIC turntables?

Postby Doug G. » 25 Jun 2013 19:56

You're welcome, Howard. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. I have experience with BICs since 1976 so I know a bit about them and their idiosyncrasies (they really don't have too many).

Fred, my V15 Type III is exactly the same as yours. BICs were initially so popular that Shure made the special mount cartridges just for BIC the same as they did for Duals.

I would be willing to bet they used cyanoacrylate adhesive (super glue) to attach the plastic carrier to the headshell both at the two pegs that fit up into the screw holes and between the top of the cartridge carrier and the moveable part of the headshell to fix the cartridge into correct alignment.

I have never tried to remove mine from the headshell as I have many BIC shells but there are solvents for super glue. You would just have to make sure the solvent won't attack the headshell plastic (I don't believe it would).

Would you try to get the conventional chrome carrier for your III if you get it separated from the shell to use in other applications?

BIC headshells are still available, at a reasonable price, from Turntable Experts in New York or they show up on eBay fairly often too.

Doug
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Re: BIC turntables?

Postby Fanfatronix » 27 Jun 2013 21:29

Doug,

Thanks for the warm welcome and advice. I've taken a look and still have all the pins and springs connected to the cam. I've also seen the teeth catch the extension rod when the table was in a vertical position while tinkering - go figure. Maybe the other problem I'm having will help diagnose my bigger problem. When the record comes to an end and the arm raises and returns to the arm rest the arm does not settle. Instead the arm stops, then bumps the rest by going right, and then heads back to the record to drop down again and does so. This happens on all settings, i.e. manual, and when the arm is in mid record then cycle is hit to return the arm back to rest. As the arm drops for second time the selector slides down to off, which I think is normal. Any more advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again,
Aaron
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Re: BIC turntables?

Postby Fanfatronix » 27 Jun 2013 23:35

Here's a video to better show what I mean. It's in manual, and at the end of the record the following happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a56BlB2tpcw

Once again thanks!
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Re: BIC turntables?

Postby Doug G. » 27 Jun 2013 23:55

Hi Aaron,

The problems you are having with tonearm position are all caused by the two thin metal levers or cam followers which move into position to stop the tonearm at different places depending on the desired result.

These are the two kind of curved pieces right near the program cam and you can see them move during a cycle. They are on the same pivot as the tonearm drive plate assembly which is the piece with the peg on it that follows the large groove in the big red main cam. There is a spring attached to the end of each one that pulls them back into rest position when the pins on the cam are not acting on them.

The grease on the pivot of these gets gummed up from age too and they must be removed, the old grease cleaned off, and then they must be relubed. I use automotive wheel bearing grease.

When these followers can't be pulled back by the springs, the tonearm will not always (or never) go to or remain at the position desired.

Sometimes you can get away with spraying a penetrating oil in there to free them up but, eventually, they will get stuck again. After you clean and relube them, move them by hand to make sure the springs pull them back to rest position every time.

EDIT: Oh and BTW, there are service and owner manuals for the 960 available in the library here, along with some other documents, so you can see what is supposed to happen in different operating modes.

Doug
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Re: BIC turntables?

Postby Doug G. » 28 Jun 2013 20:01

Aaron, I watched your video and yes, it is doing the typical thing when the cam followers get stuck with old lube.

In this case, the follower which holds the toneram at the rest post when all records have been played is stuck and lets the arm go back to the record. The actual turn-off mechanism is working normally as you surmised. The table should turn off after the program knob moves from "MAN" to "OFF".

The table will remain on any time the program knob moves from any number down to the next one (from 5 to 4, for example) but will shut off after it moves from MAN to OFF. The Owner manual will make all of this clear. The availability of manuals in the library on this site is what makes it one of the best. So much useful information.

I noticed that, at least, the cueing seems to be working. The arm appears to lower fairly slowly and smoothly.

Oh, and we can see the two followers in your photo you posted.

Doug
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Re: BIC turntables?

Postby Fanfatronix » 29 Jun 2013 22:00

Doug,

Thanks again and again for your time and knowledge. Just knowing you were here to help gave me the courage to dive right in. I striped both axles down on the cam and program arms to re-lube. Everything works much better, with the exception the program rod will skip disk 1, but I can live with that. I needed this unit to be fully automatic so my girlfriend doesn't harm the stylus.

Now, I need assistance with the cartridge alignment. Since I rescued this from a thrift store the clear alignment overhang calibrator was MIA. I have read many methods as to get it in proper alignment and was curious to know if they all apply to the 960? I know nothing about this but yet I think the unit plays and sounds great. To avoid damage to records or the stylus I would like to be certain that it's done correctly. The broken stylus that came with it was a XML MKII, which has been replaced with a replica, and this gold cartridge. I have yet been under the tonehead to tell you exaclty. Here's a pic. So any further guidance would fantastic. Thanks!

-Aaron
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Re: BIC turntables?

Postby Doug G. » 29 Jun 2013 23:34

There was a service bulletin that may be applicable to your 960 and it is included in a group of several in the library (thanks to gridleakrick). Go to BIC and there is a heading called "service information". It is service bulletin #2 and has to do with the table skipping to "OFF" instead of staying at "1"

The clear gauge originally supplied with BICs positions the stylus tip right under the rear edge of the "M, A" slide or selector at the front of the headshell. This is the piece used for changing the VTA from manual (M) to automatic (A). So, just get the tip there and the cartridge centered in the headshell and you're there.

The VTA is set by adjusting the eccentric screw under the headshell locknut until the top of the headshell is parallel with the record surface. This done with the locknut slightly loose, of course, and then tightened fully after the adjustment.

Doug
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Re: BIC turntables?

Postby Doug G. » 16 Jul 2013 20:45

One thing I want to mention is, whenever possible, get an original drive belt (reddish-orange) if you need a replacement. They are a special formulation elastomeric material (not just black rubber like most belts) and last many, many years.

The orignal one that came in my 980 from 1976 is still in service in another BIC I obtained (I put a new one in my 980) and still works satisfactorily. I'm sure it is a bit stretched after having been used that many years but it still turns a platter smoothly and, really, is perfectly fine.

As far as I know, the only source for orginals is Turntable Experts in New York as Adam there bought most of the BIC parts when they went out of business. He sells them on eBay too (at least he did the last I looked).

And one other thing. If you hear a kind of low rumbling sound that is irregular during record play, look to see if the black O-ring on the bottom of the platter spindle is in good shape. Some of them increase in diameter and don't fit tight anymore and will move around as the platter rotates so, in effect, the platter kind of moves up and down a bit as the O-ring squishes around and this causes the noise.

Some of them seem to last forever and others deteriorate.

Doug
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Re: BIC turntables?

Postby Fanfatronix » 20 Jul 2013 19:10

All seems well with my unit after completing the service announcement. It involved filing the program selector slot to add traction to the extension rod. I had okay results with the first filing but needed a second pass, and now it never skips program 1. Though the instructions advised to move the spring to the farthest-left anchor notch on the table, my 960 only had the one.

I've noticed my O-ring has indentations from the weight of the platter pushing the cog teeth into it. This may be why I have a slight wave in the platter as it spins. I'll go ahead and look into getting a replacement O-ring and orange belt package on Ebay.

I do also hear a slight hum from the motor. It's not picked up through stylus/cartridge nor heard in mix. This might be my next fix if I can just find the right STANDARD Allen wrench to take the spindle off the motor. Any size suggestions?

Furthermore, Doug's cartridge alignment suggestion of having the stylus directly underneath the M/A selector on the tonehead was spot on. Checked with a protractor and fine tuned with a caliper. Everything is sounding great!
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Re: BIC turntables?

Postby Doug G. » 20 Jul 2013 20:32

OK, good deal on your progress. As long as it works with the spring in that position, no problem. Moving the spring farthest left just ensured the most tension against the program mechanism to avoid the skipping.

The price for the belt and O-ring is so reasonable, it's an easy decision to make as to whether to get one or not.

Does your 960 have the motor mounted right to the base plate with three short screws - all one piece - or does it mount with three long spacers and a separate cover plate and the stop link thing? The early units had the latter setup and later units the former.

I had a 960 (now my son's) with the older installation and it was a bit touchy to get the stop link positioned exactly and the motor on the spacers to stop any humming (I'm sure that's why BIC went with the simpler, later installation) but, as you say, it wasn't really picked up by the stylus/cartridge.

I don't know the size of the Allen wrench for the pulley set screww. I just know it's one of my smaller ones and it is a standard (not metric) one.

Doug
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Re: BIC turntables?

Postby super g » 19 Feb 2014 03:26

Hi, just joined this forum and have recently prurchased a BIC980. What a great and solid TT! The auto controls are ace and it sounds great. i read some of your postings Doug, thanks for the info.
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Re: BIC turntables?

Postby Doug G. » 19 Feb 2014 22:53

Welcome to VE,

Congratulations on the 980. They are wonderful turntables. Enjoy it and feel free to ask any questions.

Doug
Last edited by Doug G. on 19 Feb 2014 23:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BIC turntables?

Postby Doug G. » 19 Feb 2014 23:10

Oh, and I just want to reiterate recognition to Rick (gridlearick) for furnishing all the BIC manuals and service bulletins to the library. Invaluable!

Doug
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