the home of the turntable

Jelco SA-750L with Goldring? Good Match?

snap, crackle and pop

Jelco SA-750L with Goldring? Good Match?

Postby Nitrofunk » 26 Nov 2009 00:31

Hi!
Will the Jelco SA750L-Tonearm (12 inch) work well with the Goldring Elite (on a Transrotor ZET 1)? Did anyone try this combo?
Peter
Nitrofunk
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 18
Images: 1
Joined: 27 Jan 2008 21:48

Postby analogous » 26 Nov 2009 18:17

Why would it not?
analogous
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 660
Images: 7
Joined: 05 Oct 2006 00:58

Postby analogous » 26 Nov 2009 18:18

How do you delete double posts?

Image
analogous
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 660
Images: 7
Joined: 05 Oct 2006 00:58

Postby vincula2008 » 26 Nov 2009 18:49

Hi,

The Goldring Elite's compliance is on the highish side for the Jelco SA-750L, a high-mass arm, which would probably be happier with a lower compliant design. In the end, only your ears can tell.

It wouldn't be my first choice from scratch, but try it if you already have it there. Of course, you could play with headshells (lighter ones) and arm-damping, 'til you found a balance to your liking. The Elite's nice cart.

Just my two-pence worth :D .

Regards,

Vincula
Homines, dum docent, discunt
User avatar
vincula2008
long player
long player
contributor
 
Posts: 1361
Images: 177
Joined: 17 Dec 2008 10:13
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Spain

Postby analogous » 26 Nov 2009 19:59

The Jelco SA-750L is not a high-mass arm, unless you think there are only two types--high and low.

The Jelco SA-750L is medium mass. It will work with at least 90% of all MC carts ever made.
analogous
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 660
Images: 7
Joined: 05 Oct 2006 00:58

Postby vincula2008 » 26 Nov 2009 21:37

Maybe I'm wrong, and I've swapped models in my head :roll: . What's the Jelco SA-750L effective mass then?

Us teachers like lessons too :lol: !

Regards,

Vincula
Homines, dum docent, discunt
User avatar
vincula2008
long player
long player
contributor
 
Posts: 1361
Images: 177
Joined: 17 Dec 2008 10:13
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Spain

Postby blakep » 27 Nov 2009 02:53

The 750L is going to have an effective mass of at least 18 grams as it's a longer, hence heavier version of the 750D which has an effective mass quoted by Jelco of 18.

While it may "work" with the Elite, I am with Vincula. It would not be my choice to put on the 750L. Something with lower static compliance should "work" better.
blakep
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 547
Images: 14
Joined: 06 Nov 2006 03:01

Postby Nitrofunk » 29 Nov 2009 12:37

How does a typical "heavy arm with a low compilance system"-setup (e.g. the SME 3012 with a Denon DL103) in comparison to a mediumweight-arm with a high-compilance-system (such as the Goldring Elite with the Jelco SA250)?
Peter
Nitrofunk
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 18
Images: 1
Joined: 27 Jan 2008 21:48

Postby analogous » 29 Nov 2009 13:43

First, the SME 3012 is not a heavy arm. It is about the same as the 312 and the Jelco.

Mass is determined predominately by the weight of the cart+headshell. You can use a 30g Ortofon SPU with the 3012 if you add a heavier counterweight. That makes it a high-mass arm.

If you use the DL-103 with the 3012, you need a heavier headshell, like the 17g Orsonic.

The SME 3012 II sold as Shure in the US. It was used with the V-15.

Image

Image

So I decided to put the DL 103 R in a heavier headshell. The original SME headshell weighs just under 7 grams, so I got an Orsonic AV-101b headshell which is a hefty 9 grams heavier – with the cartridge-weight of 8.5 grams the counterweight had to deal with 24.5 grams now ! But it worked, and it sounded simply fabulous.

I was stunned by the impact and precision and speed and PRAT (pace, rhythm and timing). I don’t remember hearing such a good sound before that day, even my 1999 Linn LP12 with Ittok and Benz Glider could not deliver this.


http://www.analogue-classics.com/html/thorens_td_124.html

I think the Jelco looks like a great buy. Very versatile. Will work with anything from Shure V-15 to Ortofon SPU.
analogous
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 660
Images: 7
Joined: 05 Oct 2006 00:58

Postby vincula2008 » 29 Nov 2009 13:53

Nitrofunk wrote:How does a typical "heavy arm with a low compilance system"-setup (e.g. the SME 3012 with a Denon DL103) in comparison to a mediumweight-arm with a high-compilance-system (such as the Goldring Elite with the Jelco SA250)?
Peter


Things have to be matched properly to play their best, be it a cheap Denon, a Goldring or a top Koetsu cart. That's the way they were designed for. Nothing too "typical", I'm afraid.

That said, you may prefer the sound of one of the combo's over the other, but not because of the weight/compliance and other numbers, but because of the sound they yield in your system according to your sonic preferences and the other elements in the chain.

Generally speaking, a heavy arm will limit your cart choice more, though there's a great deal of lovely LOMC's to choose from, for instance, so not really an issue either, IMHO.

You could look at it this way Have you got a favourite cart? One you really wanna get? Then pick a matching arm accordingly. Maybe you already have a dream arm you wanna keep. Then... and so on :D !

Regards,

Vincula

PS. Great set-up, analogous 8) !!
Homines, dum docent, discunt
User avatar
vincula2008
long player
long player
contributor
 
Posts: 1361
Images: 177
Joined: 17 Dec 2008 10:13
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Spain

Postby analogous » 29 Nov 2009 14:40

It is not my set-up.

And, the Jelco is NOT heavy. That 12" tonearms are heavy is a myth, created to sell lousy 9" arm.

The 12" Jelco is a perfect match for

All Koetsu
All Dynavectors
All Denons
Ortofon A90, Cadenza, Rondo, SPU

Add a heavy counterweight and the Jelco is just as heavy as 50-year-old Ortofon arm. Use a light headshell and counterweight, and the mass is the same as that of the SME 3012 and 312--14g.
analogous
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 660
Images: 7
Joined: 05 Oct 2006 00:58

Postby Nitrofunk » 29 Nov 2009 15:06

So no one has first hand experience with the Goldring Elite (same as Transrotor Merlo) with the Jelco 750L? I have it on the Jelco SA250 and it plays nice!
Nitrofunk
junior member
junior member
 
Posts: 18
Images: 1
Joined: 27 Jan 2008 21:48

Postby blakep » 29 Nov 2009 15:47

analogous wrote:Add a heavy counterweight and the Jelco is just as heavy as 50-year-old Ortofon arm. Use a light headshell and counterweight, and the mass is the same as that of the SME 3012 and 312--14g.


The 750L apparently has an effective mass of 26g and the Jelco headshell weighs 12g.

Can you really get the mass down to 14 based on those numbers? Does using a heavier or lighter counterweight affect effective mass?
blakep
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 547
Images: 14
Joined: 06 Nov 2006 03:01

Postby analogous » 29 Nov 2009 18:57

If it's 26g, then most likely not 14g. But perhaps 18g, like the new SME M2-12R.

Search this forum. I believe the SME 3009 II without headshell has an effective mass of 3g! Mass is set primarily by the weight of the headshell+cart.

The Dynavector DV-507 has an effective mass of 20g. The headshell weighs 15.4g. Effective mass figures are averages. But in Dynavector's case we can be pretty certain it is based on the arm used with Dynavector carts.

The Dynavector carts have roughly the same compliance as the Koetsus and 90% of all MC carts ever made. We call them medium-compliant.
analogous
senior member
senior member
 
Posts: 660
Images: 7
Joined: 05 Oct 2006 00:58

Return to Turntables and Tonearms