Idler vs Belt vs Direct Drive (merged topic)

by **gkimeng** » 12 Dec 2007 22:24

tresaino wrote:glad that some of you liked it!

I would just add an observation, that you may or may not agree with: in my view differences between top idler wheels and top belt drives are at least as important as the ones between top cartridges.

Ultimately, I think the one place where belt drive wins out over idler is when the time comes to find replacement rubber for 40+ year old turntables made by defunct manufacturers...

by **tresaino** » 12 Dec 2007 22:39

I don't agree. It is not at all difficult to find good idler wheels, you can buy them for a 100-150 dollars and they last a very very long time.

by **LeeS** » 12 Dec 2007 22:57

The idler wheel on my GL88 is an original and is still fine after 40 years. Nice and clean, supple, accurately ground and probably good for another 40 years. Not sure what kind of rubber Lenco used, but it's superb.

Conversely, the belt I had for my Michell Orbe went all hard and shiny and lost its elasticity after about 3 or 4 years. I would reckon on replacing it every 3 years or so had I kept the turntable.

Not sure about Garrard, EMT or Thorens idler wheels though.

by **Ernie L** » 13 Dec 2007 00:18

tresaino wrote:I don't agree. It is not at all difficult to find good idler wheels, you can buy them for a 100-150 dollars and they last a very very long time.

also Ed Crockett will rebuild your original idler wheel for much less..
look under "Rebuild services" of his web page..he does pinch rollers etc as well.
http://www.vintagelectronics.com/

by **analogous** » 13 Dec 2007 00:35

LeeS wrote:Not sure about Garrard, EMT or Thorens idler wheels though.

My Garrard 301 is 100% stock. But I plan to get the idler wheel refurbished. It's a matter of when.

by **tresaino** » 13 Dec 2007 07:31

Ernie L wrote: also Ed Crockett will rebuild your original idler wheel for much less..
look under "Rebuild services" of his web page..he does pinch rollers etc as well.
http://www.vintagelectronics.com/

Thanks for this. We actually experimented and had some custom built from different rubber materials, but with moderate results. The ones Dusch, former EMT employee, is selling are top quality.

by **hurdy_gurdyman** » 13 Dec 2007 16:10

You can also do what I had done with my ROK idler wheel. I had a new wheel made by a local machinists. Its made out of nylon and has a groove cut into the edge to hold a common O-ring. Whenever its changed it needs to have the rubber precision ground, which should be a minimal charge. This method should make all future rubber changes fast and minimal cost.

Dave

by **gkimeng** » 14 Dec 2007 19:42

tresaino wrote:I don't agree. It is not at all difficult to find good idler wheels, you can buy them for a 100-150 dollars and they last a very very long time.

I've changed the belts on my 46 year old AR table every 5-6 years since it was new, whether they seemed to need changing or not. My last repacement set (just last week) cost me nine bucks, including shipping. I think it's the most I've ever paid for a set of belts.

by **lfleib** » 19 Dec 2007 16:14

John,
I was just wondering how the table comparison was going. I know you're going to start checking out idlers and must have a lot on your plate.

I just want to say that the threads that you and b50 start, provide a great deal of useful info for the vast majority of vinyl fans and newbies. Besides that, they make a fun and interesting read. Thanks

by **b_gasik** » 12 Jan 2009 23:04

In terms of rythm, slam, plasticity and three-dimensionality the EMT 930 remained king. The Raven had no chance. In terms of delicacy, air and detail the Raven won the battle, we all agreed on that. You see? It all depends what your priorities are, but be aware of the tradeoffs.

The emt930 was down in every terms of comparaison.
Regarding depht, slam and space, the raven is top.
All depend on the system.
In the low imaging and dynamic system, the emt can won.

regards.

by **bauzace50** » 12 Jan 2009 23:14

@ Ernie L,
praise be! Good to hear from you again! Best wishes,
bauzace50

by **mosin** » 13 Jan 2009 01:01

Hello,

You said, "In terms of rythm, slam, plasticity and three-dimensionality the EMT 930 remained king. The Raven had no chance. In terms of delicacy, air and detail the Raven won the battle, we all agreed on that. You see? It all depends what your priorities are, but be aware of the tradeoffs."

Why do you think this result happened? Why do you believe there must be tradeoffs?

"The emt930 was down in every terms of comparaison.
Regarding depht, slam and space, the raven is top.
All depend on the system.
In the low imaging and dynamic system, the emt can won."

Is it not possible to "listen through" a given system, so that the turntable can be heard for its ability?

Best,
Win

by **b_gasik** » 13 Jan 2009 07:47

Not always, given the limited scope of the comparison. Do you think that maybe a 35g arm and a Koetsu Black, playing through boomy speakers might have favored one deck over the other?

Respons is corrected by tact system and flat from 20 to 300 Hz (here without the b460).

Koetsu (black, urushi, onix) plays on fr64 (30g) and fr66 (these tonearms remained on top imho).

regards

by **macvisual** » 13 Jan 2009 15:03

Hi Tresaino,

That's simply drooooooling material. Fantastic array of analogue products there, excellent stuff!

macvisual - Ireland

Visit my new Retro hi-fi website below;
http://macvisual.webs.com/index.htm

Idler vs Belt vs Direct Drive (merged topic)

Ernie L

Turntables...