Rant and review; cartridges I've tried during past 6 months

[Hepokatti]

I've been trying quite a number of cartridges during the past 6 months, so I thought I could share my experiences. I'm just going to mention few quick notes, and that's it.

Please note that these are only MY experiences, and might NOT correlate with your situation. Furthermore, the reference quipment has been changed few times, but that has always been on the cheaper side as well. All decent turntables and phono stages though, not toys. Plus I can somewhat distinguish what cartridge is doing and what the turntable & phono are doing.

I hope this is at least a little bit useful for someone looking for an entry level cartridge. I know all these are not widely available anymore, and I know there are people disagreeing with some or all of my statements. Too bad

MUSIC: Jazz, rock&pop, classical

One more thing is that I've been extremely rough on the cartridges I didn't like - mostly describing their bad sides. Here goes;

Ortofon OM5E
-Boring, bad tracking, liveless

Ortofon VMS20E
-Good tracking, punchy, musical

Digitrac 300SE
-Boring, top notch tracking, clinical

Audio Technica AT95E
-Upper midrange, musical, lacking

Audio Technica AT130E
-Bright, good tracking, fast

Stanton 500A mk 2
-Balanced, rhythmic, bouncy, good tracking

Stanton 885 LZS
-Neutral, rhythmic, top notch tracking, musical, reference

Pickering XV-15/625E
-Neutral, rhythmic, punchy, rough high-end, shouty

Denon DL-160
-Good midrange, mild low and high-ends, whimpery

Goldring Eroica H
-Good tonally, lazy, liveless, quiet

Glanz 310MFG
-Neutral, rhythmic, snappy

Shure m97xE
-Splashy high-end, neutral, annoying

Nagaoka MP-200
-Warm, rough high-end, good tracking, rich, musical

Would I recommend any of them? No. If I add "for the price" then I would say AT130E and Stanton 500A mk2. Stanton 885LZS is clearly the best one in every aspect, but is really hard to find and requires a nice loading and step-up. Pickering XV-15 and Nagaoka MP-200 are acceptable or even great, but their prices tend to be quite high nowadays. Goldring Eroica I've only listened to since this morning, but frankly, with the money I would probably go for something like Ortofon 2M Black, albeit I've never heard it.

If you have something to add, please do so. I might add more impressions of more cartridges later. One thing I share with my girlfriend besides a loo is an addiction to diamonds..

[Mark E Smith's Dentist]

Are these all tested from new? Most carts need 30-50 hours to reach their best.

I'd agree with some of your findings but I didn't find the Eroica to be lifeless or quiet - I had an H and tried it into MM and MC, deciding that MC sounded better. It seemed like a low output HOMC if you know what I mean - lower than the average MM.


JT

[Hepokatti]

Are these all tested from new? Most carts need 30-50 hours to reach their best.

Well, there is no actual proof that this is true, other than several people's common findings that cartridges sound better after some amount of play.

Most carts have been new, and few have been run in. I really don't think that the burn in time does any dramatic changes, but you may notice differences with a real expensive reference equipment.

But like I said, I merely hope this is a "little bit" useful. I didn't claim my testing to be extensive or scientific. Only my expriences. IMO phonostage, tonearm matching and speakers affect the overall sound much more than cartridge run in time.

I didn't find the Eroica to be lifeless or quiet

Like I said, I've been only listening Eroica since this morning. With quiet I mean that it's very silent on the empty groove and seems to avoid pops and cracks pretty well. Quiet is almost always a positive thing in vinyl playback.

But then the next bit; you don't find it lifeless? Well, that is your opinion and I might be wrong - but it also always depends what are you comparing things to. The thing is, Pickering XV-15 or Nagaoka MP-200 do this area so remarkably well that a mediocre MC cartridge like Eroica is hard pressed to achieve the same.

MC cartridges are naturally higher in price than MMs due to (usually) higher manufacturing costs. With low end MCs you can probably get a taste of what better MCs sound like, and many people consider them better than MMs by default. Personally, I don't know, but I'd like to find out. These 2 recent examples have not been to my taste, but I understand why people like them. They both try to please the listener by being overly smooth, which I don't find desireable.

[Tedrick]

Thanks for sharing your observations. It would help put your experiences into better context if you could tell us a little bit about your system, i.e. what turntable/tonearm, phono stage, amp/receiver, etc. you used to perform your tests.

[Hepokatti]

Tedrick, I understand what you mean. I decided not to, however, since I tried to identify what the carts themselves are doing instead of what my reference equipment is doing. I've also done quite a bit of swapping around to see if my observations hold true. For example, I've heard Nagaoka MP-200 extensively only with 2 very different systems; (Sony PS-X555ES Biotracer, Rotel RA930, Project Phono Box S, KEF Q100 speakers) vs my friend's system (Technics SL-1200mk2, Raysonic SP-88 tube integrated with phono pre, Zu Audio Omen speakers).

..but in both the results were really similar. The characteristics were there, but the SL-1200mk2 fit Nagaoka ever so slightly better, which I view as a compliance issue and nothing else.

Secondly, I can't compare anything I've used to what another reader has used, since hi-fi systems vary so much, which kind of makes the whole point moot. I had decent low to mid price gear to toy around with, and all cartridges and phonoamps were technically matched as close to optimum as possible, which I always do anyway.

I don't claim to be any kind of expert, but after swapping cartridges around for some time, you start to hear what they do, and can distinguish them from the system. I emphasize that we're in the budget territory here, where the differences between good and well regarded cartridges are actually quite subtle. Tonally most of them are "okay" I guess.

That being said, I strongly advise to take personal experiences (especially mine) for granted when someone recommends a cartridge. They are personal experiences, nothing more. I basically started this thread because I'm slightly worried that more and more overly positive comments are given about many mediocre cartridges, and while some of them can be decent with the right setup, they still don't deserve to be paid much attention to.

Thanks for your comments

[cats squirrel]

interesting results. What kind of music were you listening to?

I've been going through a lot of recently bought 2nd owned records lately, (charity shops and worse) and I am using the Ortofon OM cartridge body, with a generic stylus (£22 for the two of them). I am using it in a knife edge bearing arm I modified to use with this very light cartridge (the counterweights are only 50g total). I must say, on old Decca recordings, although I know there is probably more to extract from the disc, I am, for the moment, enjoying every moment. Rest of the system (for old record evaluation) is a Lenco turntable, Cambridge Audio phono amp, two Cambridge Audio 640v2 amplifiers and a pair of Usher 604 floorstanders, although I have just bought a Rogers mono valve preamp for mono evaluation.

Maybe this cartridge needs a light arm to show its best. I have another one with a 78 stylus in, too. Other cartridges include a couple of Stanton 500's, Goldring Elan, 1040 and 1042, and a Dynavector 10x5, the latter of which has to be evaluated.

[Hepokatti]

interesting results. What kind of music were you listening to?

From cool jazz to hip hop. Some records I like to use as reference (I know I should mention the pressings, but too lazy right now);
- Miles Davis - Someday my Prince Will Come
- Coltrane - Live at Birdland
- Sibelius - Finlandia by Vienna Philharmonic & Malcolm Sargent
- David Bowie - Let's Dance
- Talking Heads - Speaking in Tongues
- Triptykon - Eparistera Daimones

there are others..

Maybe this cartridge needs a light arm to show its best.

Yes, definitely. Heard it in Duals, Technics SL-QD33 (p-mount version) and Pro-Ject Debut III, which are all suitable for the cartridge. Also Technics SL-D3, but that arm was a tad bit too heavy already.

Glad that you find the cartridge enjoyable. It is not THAT bad to be honest, but I think the entry level price bracket is just too fiercely competed and in my eyes still dominated by the AT95E (and Stanton 500 variations to some extent). Then there are lots of people who prefer entry level models from Nagaoka, Grado and Shure, but personally I'm not that familiar with them, and how they compare to the OM5E.

[avole]

Since you don't say what system you use, nor whether it was the same for each, nor whether the cartridges were a good match for the arm, I'm afraid your review Is relatively meaningless.

I see you're aware of the problem, but to give an example the AT95E is ho-hum on a SL1200 whereas on a suspended deck (mine is TD150/Rega) it is magic. In other words, you cannot discount the ancillary equipment as you are trying to do.

[Whitneyville]

I'm not sure this is very much of a "test". The VX-15 (I have one on my Dual 1216) is rather "dated". There's an awful lot of "range" in these cartridges and I'm not sure from what isn't reported which are good matches for the arms. VTF "tuning" and overhang "tweeks" can also make more difference than is often considered. You don't mention which stylus you are using in the Pickering VX-15 (I have 7 different ones, including the "78" and a Shibata) so we could be comparing "apples to oranges". There are at least 8 different stylii shapes and sizes currently available for the AT-95 that I know of, so one could spend a couple of years just experimenting with the AT-95 alone, on an "ideal" TT with the proper arm(s). I've tried a number of cartridges on my now 6 TT's, and there are some I like that I can't afford, and some that perform beyond their cost, on the right arm and TT. Vinyl reproduction is synergistic. Rarely (never?) does one thing affect the final sound. I just finished some DIY monitor speakers. They are extremely accurate and revealing and make good pressings sound wonderful, but make bad ones sound, well, bad. With them and the Cardas test disc, in a few minutes of listening, I can "tweek" things. Just my opinion, and my way of doing things.

[Hepokatti]

Oh boy, looks like everyone is missing my point. I'm bad at expressing myself, sorry about that

I see you're aware of the problem, but to give an example the AT95E is ho-hum on a SL1200 whereas on a suspended deck (mine is TD150/Rega) it is magic. In other words, you cannot discount the ancillary equipment as you are trying to do.

I'm not trying to do anything. I shared my experiences, thats all. In this forum There are ZERO extensive testing in cartridges (except for maybe ld), everyone else is just talking from their gut feeling. Why am I not allowed to do that, all of a sudden?

I'm well aware of the problems, I already said that in my firs post. Why do you need to repeat that?

Since you don't say what system you use, nor whether it was the same for each, nor whether the cartridges were a good match for the arm, I'm afraid your review Is relatively meaningless.

How many times I have to write that I matched arms and phonos to my best skill and available equipment? I tried contradicting combinations as well. Isn't that enough information since this is personal experience anyway, and MIGHT NOT correlate with your experiences AT ALL?

Meaningless? Just as meaningless as the next guys cartridge recommendation I read from these forums every day. My aim was to give ONE VIEW (again, nothing more) from the point of actually doing tons of swapping - which rarely people do. They buy the best reviewed piece of gear and then come to forums to talk about it in positive manner. That is fine and it has its value, but I don't see why my post would be meaningless.

This is a discussion forum, not forum for scientific publications, especially when I was well aware of that in the first place.

Anyway, here are the tables and phonos I've tried the carts with. Some matched better, some worse. Mostly I aligned with Baerwald method and tracked at or near maximum recommended. Even a good match can't disguise a cartridge for what it really is;

Ortofon OM5E:
Tables:
-Project Debut III
-Technics SL-QD33
-Sony PS-X555ES Biotracer
-Technics SL-D3 (too heavy arm)

Phonos:
-Project Phono Box
-Project Phono Box S
-Luxman L116A
-Rotel RA930

Ortofon VMS20E
Tables:
-Thorens TD-150mk1
-Thorens TD-320mk2

Phono:
-Rega Fono
-Rega Brio-R
-Simaudio Moon LP110

Digitrac 300SE
Tables:
-Technics SL-5
-Sony PS-X555ES Biotracer
-Technics SL1200mk2
-Thorens TD150mkI

Phono:
-Simaudio Moon LP110
-Project Phono Box S
-Rega Brio-R
-Lehmann Black Cube

Audio Technica AT95E
Tables:
-Rega Planar 3
-Technics SL-D3
-Technics SL-1200mk2
-Goldring GR 1.2
-Project Debut III

Phono:
-Project Phono Box S
-Lehmann Black Cube
-Onkyo AV-integrated
-Project Phono Box
-Luxman L116A

Audio Technica AT130E
Tables:
-Rega Planar 3
-Technics SL-D3

Phono:
-Project Phono Box
-Clearaudio Nano Phono
-Luxman L116A
-Rotel RA930

Stanton 500A mk 2
Tables:
-Technics SL-1200mk2
-Thorens TD320mk2
-Sony PS-X555ES Biotracer
-Goldring GR 1.2

Phono:
-Rega Brio-R
-Rega Fono
-Lehmann Black Cube
-Onkyo Av-integrated
-Rotel RA930

Stanton 885 LZS
Tables:
-Sony PS-X555ES
-Technics SL-1200mk2

Phono:
-Project Phono Box S
-EAR 834P
-Lehmann Black Cube
-Shelter 411MC Step up+ XTZ A100D3


Pickering XV-15/625E
Tables:
-Technics SL-D3
-Thorens TD150mkI
-Thorens TD320mkII
-Sony PS-X555ES Biotracer

Phono:
-Rega Brio-R
-Project Phono Box
-Simaudio Moon LP110

...seriously this is too much writing, which is really not very useful. I'm going to stop here, but at least it gives a hint that I've been trying these carts with various equipment to trying to characterize them.

ONE LAST TIME: Just experiences I wanted to share, nothing scientific nor factual. Disagreeing is fine. For example if someone managed to make Shure m97xE work , I would like to hear how, with what gear and why.

I'm not sure this is very much of a "test".

I didn't say it should be a test. It's a list of carts I've tried recently with few comments.

You don't mention which stylus you are using in the Pickering VX-15

Yes I did. Pickering XV-15/625E

There are at least 8 different stylii shapes and sizes currently available for the AT-95 that I know of, so one could spend a couple of years just experimenting with the AT-95 alone, on an "ideal" TT with the proper arm(s).

Go ahead, I said my opinion with the stock stylus. AT95E

I've tried a number of cartridges on my now 6 TT's, and there are some I like that I can't afford, and some that perform beyond their cost, on the right arm and TT. Vinyl reproduction is synergistic. Rarely (never?) does one thing affect the final sound..

It's nice you have your way of doing things. I agree whole heartedly. I just talked about cartridges, not about synergy. It is true that a cartridge can sound horrible if matched wrong, and amazing if matched correctly. But there are some charactersitics to be found, and I'm not sure if I nailed them, but thats what I heard. I feel that the equipment I used was on par with the carts I've tried - some even more refined.

Since you have so many tables, I'd like to hear your comments and what were the cartrdiges and how did you like them?

Peace,
-H

[fscl]

Very interesting and thanks for the post.

Just out of curiosity did you rip / vinyl transfer the different cartridges and music in your comparison? Even though being able to swap out cartridges and set them up pretty easily, it's sometimes difficult for me to "recall" sound differences / impressions.......

Fred

[Hepokatti]

Just out of curiosity did you rip / vinyl transfer the different cartridges and music in your comparison? Even though being able to swap out cartridges and set them up pretty easily, it's sometimes difficult for me to "recall" sound differences / impressions.......

Fred

Yes Fred, you are right. The "hearing memory" seems very short I've heard. Is it so?

Unfortunately I didn't rip anything :/ - that would've meant using a clunky RCA -> 3.5mm plug -> soundcard, which would've eaten most of the sound quality and nuances I'm afraid. While for comparison purposes that might've been okay, it could've also "shrouded" some characteristics. I took notes though.

I actually wasn't planning to test anything, nor talk about it. If I knew beforehand that I would try so many, I would've done the whole process more thoroughly and systematically. I was simply trying to make a table+cart+phono stage 'sing', just for my own use to listen to music.

I'm happy with the TD320mkII + Pickering XV-15/625E + Rega Brio-R, which I'm mostly using now, but I feel that the humble Thorens could give me just a bit more music with the right cart. Pickering is a nice little box, but I also had to be critical and admit to myself its not the best cartridge in the world.

I just finished listening side 1 from the brilliant Miles Davis/Marcus Miller collaboration, Tutu, and it was such a delight! Finally I was listening & enjoying the music, instead trying to listen what my equipment sounds like.

[avole]

I'm aware of the problems, obviously, but that doesn't validate you review. You've compared cartridges on different turntables, which means it is next to impossible to give a valid comparison. I also think you have to include the ancillary equipment in your review. To compare a T4P cartridge in a basic Technics linear tracker with another in a Thorens tends to invalidate the findings, if you see what I mean.

That's why I gave the example of the AT95E: it can be exceptional in some decks, and rather ordinary in others. You mention, for example, the Digitrac, which I've used in both an SL-7 and an SL-10. In the SL-10 it isn't a mile off the top of the line 310, but in the SL-7 it's good, but somewhat restrained in nature.

[alternativeroute]

You should try that Ortofon VMS20E on a really light tonearm... I have one on an old 80's DD pottery wheel and I love the sound. Ortofon without the upper midrange glare (my subjective experience with 2M cartridges (red, blue, bronze) and the OM ones I have listened to)...

Here was one just for giggles (and to test a review assertion that this cart needs an 'uber' tonearm to perform) :


Akai AP-D2 with Dynavector Karat 17D3 by arclients, on Flickr

Sheesh, from the moment the music started, detail, detail, detail...

I like your one reference choice: Sibelius - Finlandia. When the orchestra gets big that is when lesser trackers just fall apart. Both the VMS20E and the Karat sail through

Thanks for the short punchy insights