Debris on my cart - normal?

[robsanderson]

I was trying out a new bit of camera kit with a couple of cartridge close ups and noticed quite a build up of black debris on the front left of the cart. It looks like it could be shards of vinyl

I've set it up according to Lyra's specification re weight etc and used the NAS alignment template that came with the deck. I have struggled with understanding bias weight as neither NAS or Lyra are to clear about this.

Is something wrong? Am I ruining my records?

Thanks in advance

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debris3.jpg (173.89 KiB) Viewed 1120 times

[13oots2]

Not sure if it's vinyl, look more like iron particles that have been attracted my the strong magnet inside the cartridge. Have you done any recent work on the TT or arm recently?

[markcass]

Hi

I agree, it's unlikely to be vinyl, and if it were there'd surely be a substantial build-up on the cantilever first, as that's the part closest to the stylus. Iron/steel particles do seem the likeliest explanation. It's surprising how easily a powerful magnet can pick these up. I believe re-tippers often have to remove debris like this from inside MC cartridges they are refurbishing!

HTH

Mark

[robsanderson]

Thanks 13oots2 and Mark, they do seem to be standing on end as magnetised. I've not done anything to the tt or arm.

If they are iron particles why are they attracted to the left not right side? Also whats the best way to remove them, sticky tape? I'm guessing using a stronger magnet is a bad idea, I am concerned there might be more bits inside the cart?

[markcass]

Thanks 13oots2 and Mark, they do seem to be standing on end as magnetised. I've not done anything to the tt or arm.

If they are iron particles why are they attracted to the left not right side? Also whats the best way to remove them, sticky tape? I'm guessing using a stronger magnet is a bad idea, I am concerned there might be more bits inside the cart?

The pattern of deposits may trace the contours of the stray magnetic field involved. I suspect the covering over the bottom serves to protect the internal mechanism from contamination pretty well. If you want to remove the deposit, sticky tape very carefully applied might be successful. A strong magnet probably wouldn't work and could move unpredictably, perhaps slamming into the stylus

[Eoin]

Don't go anywhere near an MC cart with a magnet, you'll be in grave danger of loosing grip of one of the two bits and smacking the stylus to oblivion.

I would think a but of blu tack or sticky tape would clean it off easily without any issues.

[Ldg]

My 2p worth :

It's hard to know what's going on, and it's fascinating really. Not much, or any normal domestic dust is ferromagnetic, and vinyl certainly isn't. So wouldn't follow that pattern. So what the small debris is, which forms a classic pattern and stands on end, is a mystery I think. As is why it is mostly on one side?

The long strands resemble debris I've always thought could be vinyl, and assume it often is. I always take it as a bad sign, something might be wrong either in the stylus tip or the vinyl composition. I don't know for sure, but only ever seen it personally on records which clog readily, or on a chipped stylus.

So more than one thing could be going on, and at least one of them could suggest vinyl damage in my book. So I'd check it out carefully.

Or you might have uncovered that some vinyl molecules can form ferromagnetic structures, in which case you're up for a Nobel prize......!

[Hanuman]

Vinyl demagnetizers are premised on the supposition that the colouring additives to vinyl have magnetic properties. Maybe there's some basis to this?

I've seen debris build-up on my Delos under a loupe. High-magnification is a bit of a hazard in a way because you were probably blissfully unaware before taking the blow-ups. In my case to the naked eye there was just a slight dark spot. Under the loupe it seemed like muck of some kind - I couldn't make out any "iron filings" appearance like yours. I was able to carefully brush it away, very carefully, with a regular long-haired stylus brush - I used one that Denon supplies with the DL-103. It was quite hard to get it away - it seemed "tacky". It never occurred to me that it might have been magnetically attracted.

Incidentally, through the loupe, it's clear that all of my cartridges accumulate dust of some kind, concentrated around the stylus/cantilever assembly.

[AK]

Try to carefuly brush the black deposits over a clear white paper, then use a magnet and see if they attract .

[midnightmayhem]

seems simple enough wash it in alcohol and if they fall right off they probably were not iron. I doubt that they are vinyl from a record and if they are it may be vinyl dust from manufacturing rather than from playing a record. Has anyone done construction in or around your listening area that made ferrous dust? Another thing to try is get a warped record and a razor blade and see how dificult it is to scrape any vinyl off the record (downforce) It is doubtful your arm is capable of producing that type of force. Clean it off and see if it comes back I really doubt you are damaging your records.

[robsanderson]

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

I removed the deposit with a sticky stylus cleaner I have so can't test if its magnetic or not. I will keep an eye on it to see if the deposit starts to re build, if so I will try the brushing onto paper method to see if its magnetic or not.

I did contact the Lyra importer and their response was
"Dirt and debris can be the result of a number of things. Firstly records that are not clean will result in a build up in and around the stylus / cantilever system. Incorrect set up will also add the problem. My advice would be to get the deck and Lyra to an authorised dealer and get a proper professional set up. This will reduce wear and improve sound quality."


I would expect finding a NAS specialist rather than a Lyra specialist would be the beter option however there are none nearby

[Ldg]

It's definitely one for Sherlock........!

I think Holmes would say you have a tape deck, probably reel-reel, in the room, slightly above and to the left of the TT, and a door on the right. You also have a male siberian hamster who has shed its winter coat

[robsanderson]

It's definitely one for Sherlock........!

I think Holmes would say you have a tape deck, probably reel-reel, in the room, slightly above and to the left of the TT, and a door on the right. You also have a male siberian hamster who has shed its winter coat

Whatever you are on, I want some

[Ldg]

Could it have been like that from the outset, ie the fine black debris was ex-factory ? Workshops can have swarf, and magnets can be, well, like magnets to it.

Domestically, there's not much, if any, ferromagnetic or strong paramagnetic debris as a rule. It would realistically need to comprise an iron or nickel based metal, or perhaps compound. AFAIK there's no iron/nickel etc content in vinyl, even colouring and filler seems unlikely.

As to the longer strands, I've watched similar develop before my eyes on an FG stylus on specific records, despite being in excellent condition and carefully inspected with high mag microscopes to the point of being certain it's in good shape. Very rare I should add. If it's the same thing at all in this case.......