Are all preamps created equally?

[digitalman161]

I know, a silly question, I'm sure they are not. However I can't believe the price differences. My new reciever does not have phono inputs and I can get my hands on a Behringer PP400 for about $22.00.

Is that a sufficient enough preamp? Should I be looking at wattage or ohms or something? Thanks.

[banerjba]

All low cost ones will all function fine but depends on you system. On a low cost on perhaps a vintage system, the improvement from the more expensive pre might not be as obvious. The basic Project models are a pretty big step up,from what is in most receivers.

[digitalman161]

Thanks, are you referring to Pro-Ject Audio Systems? Could you compare their equipment to Behringer? My recever is a Yamaha RX-V371 if that is of any value.

[Cobra2]

There are great differences out there...
While design seems to be the dominant factor for price, the internals vary widely.
What is your system, your expectation, favorite music-style & use, -and budget...?

Arne K

[digitalman161]

Well...My turntable is a Technics SL-23. I listen to everything but primarliy classic rock. My expectation; if I am listening to a digital track from, MP3, CD, iPhone, etc, at around lets say, -30db I expect my LP will be just as loud and clear (no noise). I don't want to have to turn up the volume 10-20db to have the same level.

Budget? Ideally less than $100, and at $100 I expect almost perfection.

[raphaelmabo]

Oh, phono pre-amps do differs quite a lot, just like any amplifier - different internal designs.
I used to have a NAD PP1 with I though was good, but when I replaced it with the twice as expensive Thorens MM01 - oh boy, what a difference! Vinyl has never sounded so good before in my house. And note, this was the entry level budget offering from Thorens... They do also offers much more expensive phono pre-amps. Pro-Ject also has nice ones, and they even offers tubes in some of their models, yes not transistors but old style tube technology. This of course comes at a price... Vincent is another maker, also has tube phono pre-amps. Rega is another brand famous for their phono pre-amps. Musical Fidelity has good but quite expensive ones. Cambride Audio has nice ones too and so on and so on... Plenty of options out there!

But the basic Behringer is good, it does the job. Not fantastic, but ok. It depends on what demands you have.

Regarding output volume, phono pre-amps do - in most cases - have lower output level than a typical CD player. Many LPs also have less compression than typical CD's, which means that they have a wider dynamic range - (dynamic range = the difference in volume between the quietest and the loudest passages in the music, the more dynamic range, the more difference in the music between the low volume and loud passages).

No noise? Oh, cartridges and the vinyl records can produce noise. It is seldom the phono pre-amp, not if you invest in one of the better ones. If it is an extended humming or brrrzzz in the system, then the ground wire is not properly attached, so it is also a matter of setting up. It is not really like plug'n and go as CD players are .

One thing to decide - MM, MC or both? This depends on the type of cartridge you intend to use of course. If you have a MM cartridge and does not have intention in the near future to get a low output MC cartridge, then you don't need to pay for the MC function in a phono pre-amp.

[digitalman161]

Thank you, I just put on an AT95E, MM I believe?

[banerjba]

I use that cartridge on my Pro-ject Debut iii with AcrylIt platter and a Pro-ject Phonobox ii or Phonoboxii se(I have both). I own the same basic Yamaha receiver as you and for vinyl I need -25 for volume. Vinyl output is lower than from my cds or tuner. My speakers are vintage B&W 602. You will hear a difference moving to a more expensive phono pre but your basic unit should be fine.

As others have said, LPs are not dead quiet like cds. Cds also have higher dynamic range. I just prefer the sound of LPs.

[Zebbo]

Well...My turntable is a Technics SL-23. I listen to everything but primarliy classic rock. My expectation; if I am listening to a digital track from, MP3, CD, iPhone, etc, at around lets say, -30db I expect my LP will be just as loud and clear (no noise). I don't want to have to turn up the volume 10-20db to have the same level.

Budget? Ideally less than $100, and at $100 I expect almost perfection.

Think on buddy.

[raphaelmabo]

Cds also have higher dynamic range.

In theory, not in practice since modern contemporary recordings are dynamically compressed so they don't use the dynamic range available in the CD technology. Older vinyl recordings can have wider dynamic range than new CDs.

[JoeE SP9]

Well...My turntable is a Technics SL-23. I listen to everything but primarliy classic rock. My expectation; if I am listening to a digital track from, MP3, CD, iPhone, etc, at around lets say, -30db I expect my LP will be just as loud and clear (no noise). I don't want to have to turn up the volume 10-20db to have the same level.

Budget? Ideally less than $100, and at $100 I expect almost perfection.

Expecting almost perfection for $100 is ridiculous! Also, rarely if ever is the level from a phono stage equal to that from other sources. You should do some looking around and listening in the real world.

The -30dB figure means nothing. It relates only to your receiver and how many dB down you are from reference level. If you're going to use an absolute number to define listening level you need to measure (with a meter) the SPL (sound pressure level) at your listening position. That's the only number that would mean anything to others. Otherwise it's, "-30dB from what".

[digitalman161]

Thanks for the feedback. -30db was just an example. Also, when I was referring to "perfection" it was a little out of context "my bad!". Perfection meant, similar to close dbs to that of other inputs and no noise, meaning no hum or hiss ADDED by the preamp.

Cheers!

[JoeE SP9]

Thanks for the feedback. -30db was just an example. Also, when I was referring to "perfection" it was a little out of context "my bad!". Perfection meant, similar to close dbs to that of other inputs and no noise, meaning no hum or hiss ADDED by the preamp.

Cheers!

As already posted, the level you'll get from a phono preamp is rarely if ever as high as other sources. As for added noise (hiss, hum), that's not a problem with any halfway decent phono preamp. However, there is more to the sound of a phono preamp or any piece of gear than hum and noise figures. There is a very good reason why devices that have almost exactly the same specs can cost between $50 and $5,000. They don't sound the same even though the specs may be almost identical.

A $22 Behringer phono preamp will be essentially hum and noise free. So will a $7300 Manley Steelhead phono preamp. However IMO the Manley will sound a lot better. The important thing to remember is that specs actually don't tell a lot.