A Trilogy of Trackers

[bauzace50]

Oops,

"This just in", as they say on TV news: The price of the DL-110 in the USA is currently $140.00
But VE member Trackside is reporting approximately twice that price in the United Kingdom. Is that UK price typical for this item?

In light of this , a "value rating" for this model would be different, but "performance rating" would be identical!

Although I would appreciate its performance identically, double the cost would affect a purchasing decision. It would mean "having" versus "not having" (in my case).

Regards,
b50

[dlaloum]

I believe that this is not untypical!!

Australian local pricing for various audio bits are the same sort of situation - double the price - which is why many of us shop internationally... (depending on the component and our perceived need for local support!)

[thommo_work]

Oops,

"This just in", as they say on TV news: The price of the DL-110 in the USA is currently $140.00
But VE member Trackside is reporting approximately twice that price in the United Kingdom. Is that UK price typical for this item?

Yeah

We regularly get an exchange rate of £1=$1 over here (not in our favour).

I was looking at DL110's yesterday off the back of the current threads - cheapest I saw was £130, average was £140. Real life exchange rate currently approx £1 = $1.56 which would equate to approx £90.

[goatbreath]

Plus customs and mailing charge..I wrote it all out a few pages back..

[Hepokatti]

Still discovered anything new Goatbreath?

I've tried 2 different Shure m97xe in 3 different tables (Rega Planar 3, Sony PS-X555ES, Technics SL-1200mk2) and I just now hate it in every one of them.

It's muddy, distorted, "broad-minded" and whatnot. Seriously the worst cartridge for the price I've heard for a long time. If someone likes this, then good for them. If it works for you, I won't critizie that. Also, I'm sure JICO SAS stylus helps this a lot, but I don't get the fuss about the good "nature" of the cart. If you solve the muddy fuzzyness, then you have a pretty dull and boring cart at your hands.

Today I did comparison with Stanton 500 mkI and it ate the Shure alive. Stanton made music fun to listen, while imaging was of course narrower and there was less details. Still it was much more pleasant to listen to. We're talking about a budget "DJ" cart with a round diamond beating the Shure here..

[Alec124c41]

The Shure is best in a lighter tonearm than those three.

Cheers,
Alec

[dlaloum]

Although it (M97xE) should be OK? (but not at its best)- if the brush is in use...

The other question worth asking, is what is the capacitance of the system in use?

[Hepokatti]

The Shure is best in a lighter tonearm than those three.

Cheers,
Alec

Really? Well well.. I thought the stabilizer brush should combat tonearm mismatch.

I also remember Shure having dyn.comp of 20, which should suit 12g arms, albeit giving 8hz resonance value if using the VE calculator. It is lower than optimal, but not too bad yet.

In any case I trust you as I seem to be the only one hating this cartridge.

Although it (M97xE) should be OK? (but not at its best)- if the brush is in use...

Believe me, I toyed with loads of things. Alignment, VTA, brush up/down.. they only change "shades", not the annoying sound character of the cart. For example I can't get 3d imaging of any kind.

The systems m97xe have been tried in;

Planar 3 - Project Phono-Box
Technics 1200mk2 - Raysonic Audio SP-88 integrated MM
Sony PS-X555ES - Rega Fono, Rotel RA-930 integrated MM, Lehmann Black Cube

Stuff from different price categories, except for the turntables.

The other question worth asking, is what is the capacitance of the system in use?

Capacitance has mostly been well within 200-300pf in every system I believe.

I know my testing hasn't been that extensive, but then again people slap this into any TT and write they're happy with it. I know you and Alec have "a bit" wider experience with TTs and carts than many others, including myself, but this is about the only cart I haven't found enjoyable in some way. I've listened to compromises, believe me, but at least they have been involving and engaging (AT95E, Stanton 500, Pickering XV-15 etc etc.).

[dlaloum]

I wouldn't worry too much about it....
I recall the demonstrating salesman being very taken aback when I said I didn't like the $20k+ box speakers (a well known and regarded speaker) he was demonstrating - as I could "hear the box"...

Years of living with planar speakers will do that!

In any case you just may not like the voicing of the M97xE.... which is OK too.

The M97xE from my recollection has around 27cu compliance (which is lower than the earlier V15IV or M97HE which if I recall correctly had circa 36cu compliance...)

But yes it is a high compliance design in the traditional Shure mold

I have to say I am surprised you could not get it working optimally in the Sony! - but then it may well have been working perfectly and be a sound you simply do not like!!

[Alec124c41]

Some people seem to think the Shures, especially the V-15s, were the best cartridges ever made. I have never been convinced. On an SME 3009 S2 imp., with an SAS stylus, they are not bad at all, the best I have heard them. But, there are other cartridges that I prefer.

Cheers,
Alec

[Hepokatti]

Some people seem to think the Shures, especially the V-15s, were the best cartridges ever made.

Often there are claims that some things are "the best". These claims hold until one hears something better..

@ dlaloum - maybe its like you said. I have Nagaoka MP-200 in Sony now, and I can't even mention the. Shure. in the same sentence. I just don't appreciate enough the things Shure does well in order to overcome its deficiencies.

I have nothing against the idea that Shure could work for someone. I've given up for now. If I can't sell the cart, then I'll just save it for later and give it another shot with a Jico SAS and a matching tonearm - but that will be 'someday'.

Thanks for comments

[bauzace50]

Hi,
in the same vein, it is probably impossible for a thing to be the best. Paraphrasing a line in one cowboy movie, "there's always a faster draw out there".

Even though I enjoy the cartridges mentioned in this thread immensely, there are certain performance details that I like better with the cartridge that is now mounted on the tonearm: the Stanton 881S. Too bad it is discontinued and probably has no truly equivalent replacement stylus.

The LP is a well-kept copy of Verdi's Otello on RCA Stereo. The very first scene has all the excercises needed for a full cartridge evaluation. Ample stage, solo instruments and voices for intimate moments, or massed choruses, full large orchestra and lusty/martial bombast, as well as stage movement and vocal "asides".

The 881S sailed through these treacherous grooves without a hitch and with admirable tonal accuracy and freedom from stress. The others in this thread show degrees of stress on the louder moments, and some tonal deviations from "organic nature" (pretty, or otherwise). I wonder how long the 881S will continue to work.

[Bran Kulez]

Hepokatti wrote: It's muddy, distorted, "broad-minded" and whatnot.

I agree with the above statement and that the M97x isn't engaging. I bought mine a couple of years ago for $50.00 slightly used, right after I bought my first vinyl album in probably 10 years, Fleet Foxes (self titled, with Mykonos). The recording is excellent and to my untrained ears, made the cartridge sound good. So after a couple of years of listening and tinkering, I now hear the cartridge for what it is, but we are talking about cartridges with street prices of +- $100.00.

So after reading this thread I installed the M97x with a Shure V15 type RS stylus, it's a nudie with a hyperelliptical tip. Comparing it to the oem N97xE, I couldn't hear any difference. I then replaced the V15 stylus with a Shure N104E and what a difference it made. The bass is slightly deeper and tighter with less mid-range muddiness. It sounds more like the vintage USA made Shure cartridges.



Out of curiosity, I compared the N97xE with the V15 RS styli in the Shure V15 type RS body. Again, I couldn't tell the difference between the two but the N97xE stylus sounded smoother in the V15 body than it did in the M97x body.



My half-baked conclusion...the Shure M97x and N97xE are mismatched. I think that Shure tried to combine the best of both worlds by utilizing a budget cartridge body (I'm sure it's the same as the M92) to keep the cost down and a more refined stylus assembly. In theory they would compliment each other but in reality they work against each other...

[Hepokatti]

I like better with the cartridge that is now mounted on the tonearm: the Stanton 881S.

Shame that these are so scarce. I'd be really interested to hear one. My friend has 885 low output, but it has its own difficulties.. when it's with the right equipment then there is only one word: wow. With mediocrity, not so wow.

However, the said friend demonstrated me 500mk2 with the stock spherical stylus today. Again: wow! Stanton must've done something right.. I mean 500mk2 is not the deepest of deeps nor has extremely good detail, but it makes music and imo beats stock AT95E right now for the best budget deal ever. (Except for being discontinued)