Shure stylus question w/photo re: M44-7, others

[mrow2]

Came across two Shure M44-7 don't know if from same turntable or not, as one was in a box, unmounted. Carts are different colors, white one is shown in image. Other is brown/black. On close look, one stylus (white) is considerably larger and cantilever is heavier and stiffly sprung. The blue one is conventional. Some cantilever damage but can be strengthened. Both styli look fine. The white one has a sort of handle off to one side of it, and I've seen this many times without attaching any importance to it. But here it appears I have a 78 stylus with the white so does the "handle" generally mean it is a 78 stylus, or is there no relevance? Do you agree the white one is a 78? The bonded stylus post is essentially 4-sided. Most Shures are round. Something I had not run into before, have only seen a couple other Stanton 78s and I could hardly tell the difference, just looked like DJ styli. Thanks in advance for opinions.

[jc_the_trucker]

I have an m44e and it has the "square" cantilever as well. I think it's that way for both the 44 and 55 series as they both use the same mounting system. I believe the m44-7 was generally intended for 78s, but the handle is irrelevant, I think as my 44e's elliptical stylus has a handle; I just ordered a new one, so I'll find out if it has one in 4 weeks when I get home. I think the previous owner of these carts might have bought the standard styli so they wouldn't have to switch carts for regular records. Not sure how that would sound though.

[mrow2]

OK so it's normal for the post to be square on this model but what about the stylus size of the white one, it seems larger than the blue one?

And I just realized when I went out to do some more work on them, that the blue one is probably not a 44 or 44e stylus. I hadn't realized at first but it doesn't slide in level with the body, instead it points up a bit... .i.e., not the identical profile. So I don't really know exactly what cart it goes with but I also have a TM1E with same profile stylus except this one is brown, stylus plastic mold is same. Have not seen the TM1E before, very much like some others I've seen though except that it has a body-mounted stylus protector as opposed to having it come with the stylus.

Looking at Amazon, I'm thinking the M44-7 I have (white) is an older version DJ cart with skip-resistant 33rpm stylus but I'd shure like to be sure. It did not come with any kind of DJ table.

[Coffee Phil]

I have an M44 body for which I bought an N44-3 stylus. The N44-3 is green, 2.5 mill, and is for 78s. The paperwork which came with it lists an N44-7 which is white, 0.7 mill, and spherical. The recommended tracking force is 1.5-3.0 grams.
There is also listed an N44-1 which is dark blue, 1 mill, and spherical. The recommended tracking force is 1.5-3 grams. The dark blue stylus is recomended for mono Lps. The stylus which was native to my cartridge is light blue which is listed as an N44C which is 0.7 mill, spherical and tracks at 3-5 grams.

Phil

Came across two Shure M44-7 don't know if from same turntable or not, as one was in a box, unmounted. Carts are different colors, white one is shown in image. Other is brown/black. On close look, one stylus (white) is considerably larger and cantilever is heavier and stiffly sprung. The blue one is conventional. Some cantilever damage but can be strengthened. Both styli look fine. The white one has a sort of handle off to one side of it, and I've seen this many times without attaching any importance to it. But here it appears I have a 78 stylus with the white so does the "handle" generally mean it is a 78 stylus, or is there no relevance? Do you agree the white one is a 78? The bonded stylus post is essentially 4-sided. Most Shures are round. Something I had not run into before, have only seen a couple other Stanton 78s and I could hardly tell the difference, just looked like DJ styli. Thanks in advance for opinions.

[Bran Kulez]

mrow2 wrote: But here it appears I have a 78 stylus with the white so does the "handle" generally mean it is a 78 stylus, or is there no relevance?

The "handle" is only present on the N44 & N55 series, it does not necessarily mean that it is a 78 rpm stylus. Generally, the 78 rpm styli Shure produced have dark green grips as Coffee Phil mentioned.

The blue stylus you have is the N74C (.7 mil 2-4 grams) which, although it may fit, will not work properly in the M44 or M55 series cartridges. If you compare the white and the blue styli side by side, you will see that the brass shafts have different angles.

Coffee Phil is correct, the N44-1 is dark blue and has a 1 mil tip but it should not be confused with the one you have. The N44-1 has a side "handle".

It's hard to see from the photos but it looks like they were re-tipped. Shure styli never (as far as I know) came with "square" tips.

I bought a used N44C on ebay recently and when it arrived I was pleasantly surprised to find that it had been re-tipped with a "nude" square shaft elliptical 78 rpm stylus... ...looks like you may have something similar...

[Bran Kulez]

mrow2 wrote: So I don't really know exactly what cart it goes with but I also have a TM1E with same profile stylus except this one is brown, stylus plastic mold is same

Shure marketed numerous cartridge models that use the same body. The M44 series is a good example. The M44-1, M44-7, M44C, M44E have identical bodies, only the styli were different. The TM1E is from the M75 family and any N75 (and N74) series stylus will fit.

mrow2 wrote: Looking at Amazon, I'm thinking the M44-7 I have (white) is an older version DJ cart with skip-resistant 33rpm stylus but I'd shure like to be sure. It did not come with any kind of DJ table.

The M44-7 that you have was (is?) a hi-fi cartridge. It was marketed along side of the M44C (conical), M44E (elliptical), M55E and V15 type 1, all of which share the same body design (as previously mentioned), i.e, flat bottom parallel to the record surface. It's been in production almost continuously for the past 40 + years.

[jake]

The newer M44 is built extra sturdy for DJ's, has "bass-ie" sound, and mates well with Pioneer tables.

[sergio_s]

The newer M44 is built extra sturdy for DJ's, has "bass-ie" sound, and mates well with Pioneer tables.

Pioneer?!?!?!

Technics!

[mrow2]

I am going to try again. Am still not sure from the replies if this is a 78 stylus or a DJ stylus? Someone said HI-FI cartridge, meaning what exactly? A stylus intended for mono 33? It appears to be conical. It also appears larger than other
fine needles.

I made a shot using the microscope. The post is definitely square, with 4 additional shorter sides for a total of 8 sides, 4 wide and 4 short. Not much if any wear on this. Has a large cantilever, and the spring suspension is fairly stiff, suggesting several grams for tracking. As re the blue one I posted on earlier up above, clearly that is the N74, whether an E or C I'm not sure. What I am trying to determine is just how this stylus should be used and how it might benefit someone.

[Bran Kulez]

It looks like the original tip. The stylus is the N44-7 which has a .7 mil conical tip and is not for 78's...it can be used for stereo or mono pressings, hi-fi or DJ use. It tracks between 1 and 3 grams and has a high output. Give it a listen...

[mrow2]

OK Bran, good and thanks. Surprised it could track at 1g but I will eventually be able to try it out. Agree, definitely does not look like a retip and anyway would they be even trying to retip a stylus in this range? I thought re-tipping was largely done with the MCs where it would make sense to invest the hundreds of dollars needed to pay for that type of operation. As for my blue one I will look around for a cart it can be with.

One more thing: This stylus is fairly large, cantilever too. In the first photo you can make a comparison. That is what led me to think it might be a 78. The only other 78 I've seen in the last year was a brand new Stanton 500 needle made for 78s which a guy brought over to fit to the 1019s I was fixing up for him. I had trouble seeing the diff but could see that it was rounder in the middle of the cone, and that made it larger though it was not real obvious.

[Bran Kulez]

Here's a photo of the current N44-7 next to the N74C. Note that Shure replaced the side "handle" with a flip down stylus guard which I removed...

[Bran Kulez]

mrow2, you bring up a good point about the tip sizes. They are both .7 mil conicals, but the N44-7 has a much larger tip compared with the N74C...

[mrow2]

Thanks, and I see that gentle curve in the cantelever too. Were you able to see if it's a square post or not? Anyway looks like it could be the same.