Turntable Recommendations Welcomed

[cafe latte]

Don't worry about the "Audio Technica is krapp" responses. I have the ATLP-120 and it works and performs at well above its price point. Yes it has a high W&F but so do other tables. I have listened to low end models from MH and Pro-Ject and the AT LP120 sounds better and holds speed better. Unless you get a speed box, which is another $150. You can use that money to upgrade to a better cartridge.....I use a Nagaoka MP-110 and it sounds brilliant! Very well balanced, fantastic lowend and crisp clean mids and highs, and tracks wonderfully. Make sure you use the Technics protractor found here and you will be fine. I have no noticeable IGD........Enjoy your table and have fun with the vinyl!!

The OPs Audio Technica has a high 0.1 wow and flutter but just acceptable, the AT lp120 has an unbelievably high 0.2% which is not a normal level for any decent TT and for sure not one that is direct drive and will be well outperformed by most entry level TTs and there is no way a TT that cogs so bad is more speed stable than any Project. I dont like to put anyones TT down, but please dont try to compare with Project or music hall TTs. I am sure these AT tables have there place, but lets not post stuff that is misleading
Regards
CL

[megatrends]

megatrends - I used to use the predecessor ATPL120 as my main t/t, and still have one in the family room for parties etc.

I never found it unstable at any stage, the sound was always very good, even in direct comparisons, and I lived with it very happily for a couple of years.

A lot if not all of the knocks are based on the wow/flutter numbers (which aren't great if you do a comparison against some other t/t numbers) - but to be honest I stopped arguing about it a while ago now after my experience that I never heard any instability - despite the numbers - didn't seem to matter.

Anyway, each to their own, and I hope you have as much fun with your AT as I did/do with mine.

Mind you I did play drums, so timing isn't my strong suit.

yeah I truly just couldn't hear anything even with the infamous John Williams soundtracks of very long single note passages. Pipe organ classical records I have which usually show this flaw, my old turntable would struggle with some of them.

I did find my Focus album Moving Waves is a bit offcenter and has a warble in that record alone. I had previously thought it was my old turntable since it did that. lol.

It isn't serious but noticeable if you listen closely. That record is a mint gem, quiet grooves in that one. Sorry to ramble off topic but it $1.10 on eBay because nobody bid on it. I still can;t believe it, sleeve is mint also like it was just purchased.

Anyhew .... I am sitting here enjoying my records in hermony. What a beautiful machine.

[megatrends]

Don't worry about the "Audio Technica is krapp" responses. I have the ATLP-120 and it works and performs at well above its price point. Yes it has a high W&F but so do other tables. I have listened to low end models from MH and Pro-Ject and the AT LP120 sounds better and holds speed better. Unless you get a speed box, which is another $150. You can use that money to upgrade to a better cartridge.....I use a Nagaoka MP-110 and it sounds brilliant! Very well balanced, fantastic lowend and crisp clean mids and highs, and tracks wonderfully. Make sure you use the Technics protractor found here and you will be fine. I have no noticeable IGD........Enjoy your table and have fun with the vinyl!!

The OPs Audio Technica has a high 0.1 wow and flutter but just acceptable,

To whom? You? .... or the wow and flutter police?

Every board for everyt thing has a guy like you "Ratings and computer measurement actually determine the new Firestone tire is not as much traction as the new Goodyear etc etc".

Just be quiet and drive. lololol. I mean that in a warm hearted way of course. Lighten up and enjoy the day. Most of us here honestly have turntables one can nitpick about over one thing or another whether it be a $10,000 deck or a $200 one, what is the purpose of that? I'm not returning what I bought because I love it despite the "flaw" which I can't even hear. You'll just have to move on ...

[cafe latte]

Don't worry about the "Audio Technica is krapp" responses. I have the ATLP-120 and it works and performs at well above its price point. Yes it has a high W&F but so do other tables. I have listened to low end models from MH and Pro-Ject and the AT LP120 sounds better and holds speed better. Unless you get a speed box, which is another $150. You can use that money to upgrade to a better cartridge.....I use a Nagaoka MP-110 and it sounds brilliant! Very well balanced, fantastic lowend and crisp clean mids and highs, and tracks wonderfully. Make sure you use the Technics protractor found here and you will be fine. I have no noticeable IGD........Enjoy your table and have fun with the vinyl!!

The OPs Audio Technica has a high 0.1 wow and flutter but just acceptable,

To whom? You? .... or the wow and flutter police?

Every board for everyt thing has a guy like you "Ratings and computer measurement actually determine the new Firestone tire is not as much traction as the new Goodyear etc etc".

Just be quiet and drive. lololol. I mean that in a warm hearted way of course. Lighten up and enjoy the day. Most of us here honestly have turntables one can nitpick about over one thing or another whether it be a $10,000 deck or a $200 one, what is the purpose of that? I'm not returning what I bought because I love it despite the "flaw" which I can't even hear. You'll just have to move on ...

Ok I did not mean to offend, but I can hear 0.1 wow and flutter with some music, but 0.2 is very audable. I was not getting at your deck with my last comments, I realise you are not returning it, you bought it with your eyes wide open after all our advice and I am sure you will be very happy with it. My only issue was with the other poster sugesting that the lp120 is more speed stable that entry level projects and music halls which is clearly misleading as the lp120 has 0.2% wow and flutter which is 10 times high than a Technics to put it into perspective which is not a 10,000 pound TT. This is not just quoting numbers your TT is head and sholders above the LP120, not my choice though.
I think you misunderstood my post.
Apologies if I offended.
Regards
CL

[cafe latte]

Here are the specs of the lp 120 and the Project Genie
http://www.needledoctor.com/Audio-Techn ... -Turntable
http://www.sydneyhificastlehill.com.au/prod1742.htm
The Genie has less wow and flutter, also what is not mentioned is lp120 are known to often run slow too.
0.15% wow is still high, but it is the nature of how the Genie wows that makes it less audable as it is a slow variance. The lp120 high figure is due to the method of speed control AT use which is a kick to the platter every rotation causing a cog effect ie a repeating speed change.
This is ignoring the other area that the Genie measures better.
The Debut measures better and is the same price as the genie with half the wow and flutter of the lp120.
http://clefhifi.com.au/catalog/product_ ... 8a203ddf13
Regards
CL

[megatrends]

Ok I did not mean to offend, but I can hear 0.1 wow and flutter with some music, but 0.2 is very audable. I was not getting at your deck with my last comments, I realise you are not returning it, you bought it with your eyes wide open after all our advice and I am sure you will be very happy with it. My only issue was with the other poster sugesting that the lp120 is more speed stable that entry level projects and music halls which is clearly misleading as the lp120 has 0.2% wow and flutter which is 10 times high than a Technics to put it into perspective which is not a 10,000 pound TT. This is not just quoting numbers your TT is head and sholders above the LP120, not my choice though.
I think you misunderstood my post.
Apologies if I offended.
Regards
CL

I guess I did mistake what you said, my apologies. *bows gracefully*

From what my friend told me who is legally blind who owns one he says it has more plastic than he would like to see "but other than that" is happy with it.

[Catcher10]

Here are the specs of the lp 120 and the Project Genie
http://www.needledoctor.com/Audio-Techn ... -Turntable
http://www.sydneyhificastlehill.com.au/prod1742.htm
The Genie has less wow and flutter, also what is not mentioned is lp120 are known to often run slow too.
0.15% wow is still high, but it is the nature of how the Genie wows that makes it less audable as it is a slow variance. The lp120 high figure is due to the method of speed control AT use which is a kick to the platter every rotation causing a cog effect ie a repeating speed change.
This is ignoring the other area that the Genie measures better.
The Debut measures better and is the same price as the genie with half the wow and flutter of the lp120.
http://clefhifi.com.au/catalog/product_ ... 8a203ddf13
Regards
CL

Specs mean nothing to me....And YES I have listened extensively to both, specifically Music Hall 2.2 and Pro-Ject Debut III, after I bought my ATLP-120....at a Music Hall dealer in Tacoma as I was auditioning a set of Epos Epic 2s (which I bought). Both tables did not have the sound performance the Audio Technica had, I have not heard the 0.20% W&F in the AT, compared to what, about 0.12% on the Pro-Ject. I am 48, have had vinyl all my life...and I can hear the difference in speed variations, I have had several tables in my life, the AT does an admirable job in speed control. AGAIN...with a speed box I am sure the other two would be wonderful, but that's an added expense I don't have.

I have a NAD C356BEE int amp with the NAD PP375 Phono stage, it is much better than the internal phono of the AT, agree 100%....But that is besides the point here.
Bottom line specs mean nothing to peoples ears, those are the only specs you should pay attention to. I know plenty of people who have paid $1000-$2000 for a table and have been disappointed with the sound...and supposedly with better specs than a $500-$800 table.

I am not misleading anyone....I am only reporting what my ears hear.

[cafe latte]

I have no desire to battle on this. The lp120 is not a speed stable as the Project as shown in the specs. The specs are correct or trading standards would be all over the companies printing misleading info. If you are hearing with your ears different then the Project was very faulty I am affraid as in all tests i have read the tested Project performed at or better than the published specs. On the Hifi news test of the lp 120 it performed slightly worse if I remember correctly. It is in black and white the lp120 is not as speed stable as any Project.
Regards
CL

[thommo_work]

I have not heard the 0.20% W&F in the AT...

I am only reporting what my ears hear.

Again - this mirrors my own experience with living with the AT.

I don't dispute the numbers (I don't think you are either, Catcher), but what it looks like we are both saying is that we haven't ever heard the supposed effects of these numbers.

For me, in my experience, an off centre pressing is completely audible on any turntable, but on a well centred record, the AT has never sounded off speed to me. Makes me wonder what % of pitch instability does an off centre pressing impart if that's audible?

And for what it's worth, I had the same experience of a Debut (albeit a Mk1) being hugely underwhelming in the sound quality stakes.

[youngdand]

As many have said. If you like it, then that is all that matters.

Going back to the point of this thread, and the fact, that this will be used by others as a refernce for making a decision on future purchases. For the $500 paid for this table, there are technically better alternatives, both new and used. A used technics 1200 turntable, is no question a finer turntable, if in good condition. spares are easily obtainable, and is upgradeable to even higher performance, with changes in arm etc, some of these upgrades may be within the $500 budget.

[Catcher10]

I do agree there are many, many other options in that $500 range both new and used. I for one am not a fan of used equipment, that's just me. What I enjoy is buying something and having it perform at above its price point....I mean we all want a $500 pc to perform at a $800 level, but I have heard the reverse many times.
AT is a fine company, makes some of the best cartridges around, I don't discount the specs of their tables, but that does not mean that I actually hear it in play....Maybe I got one of the better ones or one at the lowest end of the W&F range.....dunno. But its performance has not made me want to upgrade to a better spec table.
I do not expect it to last much longer as I use it daily, its 2yrs old. So eventually I will get another table, probably for Christmas....For now I am very pleased in its performance and recommend it highly as an intro table, over other intro tables of the same cost.

Have a great day all!

[youngdand]

That a fine comment, but for $500 dollars, i would expect to get more years than 2 out of a peice of equipment. For instance, my ariston RD11s is now a 35 year old, and runs as good as it ever did, and i don't expect to have to replace it soon, other than to upgrade. Even then it will be hard to beat. i was / am a novice when it comes to mainenance, but it is simple to deal with.

secondhand, can get you a great deal. but the technics is a no brainer in my opinion, and i think at the price quoted of $500 dollare, should be everyones first thought direct drive.

[megatrends]

As many have said. If you like it, then that is all that matters.

Going back to the point of this thread, and the fact, that this will be used by others as a refernce for making a decision on future purchases. For the $500 paid for this table, there are technically better alternatives, both new and used. A used technics 1200 turntable, is no question a finer turntable, if in good condition. spares are easily obtainable, and is upgradeable to even higher performance, with changes in arm etc, some of these upgrades may be within the $500 budget.

This is immaculately beautiful sounding. I've nothing bad to say about it in the least. It is solidly made also and just feels quality. I was very impressed with everything from the extra packaging and soft cloth bag for the turntable itself in shipment then a plastic bag over that.

The platter is very solid and has good dampener in it.

I know this one will last many many years, the motor is excellent and very powerful.

I don't have the stats, don't care really. I know what I hear, my old turntable had all kinds of faults you could hear and still had "charm". Turntable rumble and all ... lol.

This one is damned quiet you don;t know what volume your receiver is at until you look or the music starts.

I really do not care what anyone has to say about the turntable I got and the price. yeah obviously the Technics 1200 is "better" but as stated we use those at the radio station I do a show at and have used them for years and years and the turntable I just got "sounds" just as good. That to me is fact ... I don't care what the side by side numbers are.

I think it comes down to personality, some guys just won't be able to get past 'the numbers compare' and some will just enjoy their records instead like me. Some guys consider a mint record a mint vinyl and a mint sleeve. Like I tell my friends who are into vinyl .... I don't listen to the sleeve and really do not care what shape it is in.

I guess what I mean is if one is going to be fussy there is no cure for that and they won't be happy with anything they own anyway because there will be a turntable valued at $2,000 instead of the paltry $1,000 Technics new SL-1200 MK II they currently have.

.... um whatever. Enjoy not enjoying your records. I'll be whooping it up with my new turntable and having a very VERY CONTENTED blast.

I want a Lambourghini, I can't get one so I drive a 1989 Chevy Z24 convertible that is restored because that is what I can do and I enjoy it very much.

[Catcher10]

That a fine comment, but for $500 dollars, i would expect to get more years than 2 out of a peice of equipment. For instance, my ariston RD11s is now a 35 year old, and runs as good as it ever did, and i don't expect to have to replace it soon, other than to upgrade. Even then it will be hard to beat. i was / am a novice when it comes to mainenance, but it is simple to deal with.

secondhand, can get you a great deal. but the technics is a no brainer in my opinion, and i think at the price quoted of $500 dollare, should be everyones first thought direct drive.

Agree...but I only paid $215 from Amazon 2 yrs ago, and I do want something different. I have been rebuilding my whole system the past 6 months NAD amp/NAD CDP/NAD phono stage/Epos Epic 2s/Grant Fidelity DAC...by year end I will have a new TT. But not sure what I will get...my budget will be $700-$800.

Have a great day!