Denon DP-45f and DP-52f carts and maintenance??

[wkend-warrior]

New to Vinylengine, read a lot of good stuff on both DP-45f and DP-52f. Original owner of the DP-52f, came with Signet MR 5.0 me cart, kids broke off stylus...looking to seek a possible replacement stylus...lp gear, and other vendors have for $45-$175. Is this cart WORTH getting a replacement stylus for? Presently mounted on it I have an Audio Technica (not sure model, less than $100 paid) sounds OK.

I also just purchased a DP-45f (DP-52f was misbehaving, solved with counterweight and other settings). The DP-45f had NO counterweight, used a socket, counterweights are endangered species. Socket helps some functions but they are not consistantly working. Cart is DL-60, actually like it better than Audio Technica on DP-52f. Motor slow to come up to speed, and cleaning brush can bring turntable to a stop even with light application. Going to try deoxit cleaner on switches, oil/lube motor...but would appreciate some guidance WHERE best to apply clean and oil/lube, and best oil to use. I have User and Service Manuals, little sparse on details. DP-45f has sentimental value, was from elder gent who loved music, trying to not toss or sell it.

Appreciate feedback on where carts DL-60, DL-110, and Signet MR 5.0 ME rate. Waiting on DL-110 heard great things about it.

I listen to ALL genres of music: classic, new age, rock, female vocals, soundtracks, acoustic, opera, etc...I buy 95% old used records, clean them well. Was actually thinking of on TT to demo used records with low cost cartridge, to avoid damage to other TT with BETTER cart, or set up TT's one for rock, the other for critical listening. Appreciate your thoughts here....

Gear I use: Yaqin MC100-B Amp on VARIAC at 104volts, did tube rolling upgrades, Lehmann Black Cube phono preamp, Paradigm Mini-Monitors, upgraded interconnects, speaker and power cables. Extremely happy with this setup, like tube sound. Just rediscovering vinyl after mothballing my DP-52f for 20+ yrs. Any other cartridges you folks like on these TT's?

Wkend-warrior

[wkend-warrior]

Also....trying to guage where both the DP-45f and DP-52f rank regardless of DD or belt drive peers, strictly on sound and performance. Been looking at Rega Planar 3, P3, P5, MMF 5.1, 7.1, Pro-Ject xpression III, xperience, Lenco, Sony Biotracer, Linear Tracking Yamaha PX-2, PX-3, Technics SL-1200, Thorens TD165, Empire, and Denon DP3000, as well as other Denon TT's. Heard my TT's have sensitive ciruit boards, when they go, repairs are expensive, but how often do these break down?

[Dimal]

G'day 'warrior...

In good working condition, both of these TTs are real beauts. The 52F could be considered to be the more desirable of the two because of the benefits of the slightly higher performance motor unit, but there's really nothing in it to be honest.

Sounds like there might be a control problem with the 45F though, force applied via a (Carbon Fibre?) brush should definitely not slow the platter down. Really, the best thing to do with both TTs (or the one you decide to keep as your prime TT), is to drop it into a reputable Technician's workshop and have all the Electrolytic Capacitors changed out for new, decent quality current versions; plus, have all the Wire-Wrap connections soldered on as these can be a site for future corrosion problems if left as-is. Once this is done, get the Tech' to verify the Platter Speed setup as per the Service Manuals and you're good to go. That's all there is to it really and it should be quite inexpensive to have done.

There's no particular sensitivity as such with these and other vintage TTs; the electrolytic capacitors deteriorate with age and given that these are 30+ years old now, every time you use them without having the above work done, is basically playing Russian roulette with their longevity and reliability. Failed capacitors have a horrible habit of taking out more components with them at the moment of failure, and this can sometimes be irreplaceable ICs that are essential for the operation of the turntable.

This pretty well applies to all vintage Direct Drive (and Dynamically controlled Tonearms, where fitted) turntables, regardless of who made them. The quality of vintage TTs such as these, is right up there with the very best TTs ever made and definitely worth hanging on to, when in good condition and the electronics reconditioned as described. Once this is done, they're good for another 30 years...

Because of the unique motor design of these units, the only thing that really needs lubing occasionally, would be the Sub-Platter Spindle Bearing. There's a couple of recent threads about TT lubrication in the TT category above. Basically though, you need to use a decent quality, lowish viscosity 100% synthetic oil (NOT Motor Oil - Compressor Oil is much better). This must be applied sparingly too, a couple of drops after cleaning off the original oil every couple of years or more...

That's about all I can contribute 'warrior. No doubt someone else will be along to help out with your other questions.

All the best,
Mal.

[wkend-warrior]

Thx Mal ! Good to know both TT's are highly regarded. Will head your advice with soldering and replacing with new caps, heard those IC's when they go make repairs cost prohibitive. Synthetic oil also for sub platter bearing.

Still think the speed lock not holding speed and blinking is related to tonearm counterweight adjustment/my socket. Motor slowdown with dishwasher brush may be caps, or weak motor.

Anxious to here others chime in on my prev cart questions.

[wkend-warrior]

Just received the DL-110 cartridge, mounted on DP-52f sounds real nice. But honestly compared to DL-60 on the DP-45f, the DL-60 in comparison does not sound so shabby, sound is pretty nice also.

Did some additional research for how to fix DP-45f: replacing capacitors everyone agrees on. Made sure sensor under platter was clean, and not loose. Appears there is some type of tape under the platter the sensor picks up for LOCKING in correct speed, if this is slightly askew, LOCK light flickers, so slight adjustment may improve speed. Will look into that. Found one person with same motor slow down problems, he replaced the motor/rebuilt the motor, later found out two transistors on circuit boards had failed. Perhaps on the motor control circuitry. Thinking between caps and transistors minimally repair cost $100-150, maybe more. Can't swing that now. hate to give the DP-45f up, may consider parting it out also. Appreciate members thoughts on this.

[Dimal]

G'day again 'warrior...

Given that the 45F is a bit dodgy, why not set this one aside and keep for spares to protect the longevity of your 52F? There will be a lot of parts similarity between the two and that would be the way I'd be leaning if I was in your situation.

Mal.

[scottdavis0801]

I just played my Denon 45f for the first time yesterday! I couldn't believe the sound. Harman Kardon 330B receiver(alot more powerful than I thought). And Epicure 100 speakers. All of it together produce a very stong tube/sensitive, I can't exactly explain sound, but fantastic! The cartridge on the tt is the original, and just like the other forum members have said, it sounds pretty damn good. I am curious what it would sound like with a Shure or Denon upgrade Cartridge.

[cat9]

I just installed a Denon DL301MKII on my DP 45f....AMAZING!!!!

[hawkster]

I've been very happy with my DP-52f paired with the Shure V15VxMR. Rock solid tracking, excellent fidelity. Recently replaced the OEM stylus with a JICO SAS, which performs at least as well as, if not better than, the original.