505-3, cartridges, arm height, dynamic tracking weight?

[thespirit3]

Hi All,

I've just bought an excellent condition Dual 505-3 from eBay. After much research and consideration I figured a good condition Dual would probably be better than a brand new entry level Pro-Ject.

The 505-3 is apparently in excellent health (I have yet to collect) and is fitted with an Ortofon DN165E stylus. The only issue is purely cosmetic; the platter mat looks a slightly uneven colour. For this reason I've ordered a 3mm new wool mat from eBay.

Now on to the questions...

1) Is the 505-3 worthy of a cartridge upgrade to something like an Ortofon Red (possibly Blue) or are these carts likely to be wasted on a ~25 year old entry level turntable?

2) If replacing the standard mat with a possibly thicker material, can the arm height be adjusted? I believe this is more of an issue with some Dual's as the weight is dynamic and dependent on arm height? Should I stick with the original mat?

Basically, I'm looking for advice on getting the most out of this turntable. Any advice appreciated. I have searched the forum with limited success (certainly no hits on mats, arm height and effects on dynamic tracking weight).


Steve

[raphaelmabo]

Congratulations, the Dual 505 is a very nice turntable!

1. Yes you can use an Ortofon 2M Red on it. It suits the tone arm. No, I don't think it's waste. Dual 505 was a good starting point for many vinyl lovers, but it did existed lower level turntables. The 2M Blue is beyond what I would spend on such a table, but the Red is just fine.

2. The instruction manual can be found here...
http:/www.vinylengine.com/library/dual/cs-505.shtml

The number before the entry is for the 505 version. (-1, -2, -3 and so on). So download the -3 instruction and you will se something in there about a tonearm height alignment screw...

[thespirit3]

Thankyou Raphaelmabo. It's good to have some reassurance I've made the right decision.

I did check the manual but must have missed this section. I'll take a closer look!

Thanks again

Edit: Ah yes - I see this now, although it's not very clear. Does the height adjustment only adjust the height above the record when the arm is raised? Or, does it alter the whole height of the mechanism? Are there any rules to follow when adjusting arm height? Sorry for more questions ...

Second edit: I've found an article suggesting the arm should be parallel to the record surface when playing, or slightly angled downwards dependent on preference. I'll be interested to hear any thoughts/advice on this...

[kalypso]

The 505 in any version does not have a possibilitiy to adjust the tonearm height, except the use of spacers between cart and headshell or thinner/thicker mats, as with any other non height-adjustable tonearm.

Its just possible to adjust the clearance of the needle when the cueing lever is raised.

regards kalypso

[thespirit3]

Thanks for the clarification. So, based on this, I'm assuming a thicker mat would upset the geometry and have negative effects on sound reproduction.

[Alec124c41]

There is a way to adjust the VTA. You can put a shim between the cartridge and the mount, at front or back, to adjust the angle.

Cheers,
Alec

[thespirit3]

Thanks Alec

[raphaelmabo]

Why is there an "Alignment screw for tonearm height" ? Page 5 in the manual. Number 4 on the image points to it. Isn't it there on the turntable? I don't have a 505-3 at hand so can't check.

[kalypso]

Screw 4 is just there to adjust the height of the tonearm over the record with the cueing control in "up" position. It does not affect VTA.

ragards,kalypso

[raphaelmabo]

Ah, thank's for the clarification. The info in the manual is not clear so it is a bit misleading then.

[lini]

Steve: I wouldn't recommend a 2M Red or 2M Blue for a 505-2/-3/-4 - that's just unnecessarily heavy, clunky and expensive, apart from the 2M Red being not really better than a Dual ULM65E (alias OM(B)10). So, if you want to upgrade, I'd rather suggest to go for a new needle 20 or, which would currently be the best deal, a new Digitrac 300SE to use its needle on the body of your ULM65E.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

[kalypso]

unnecessarily heavy

Yes.

A good alternative would also be the vinyl master red, it has a relatively high compliance and is not that heavy as the 2m series. This should match well with the tonearm.

regards, kalypso

[lini]

kalypso: Yup, the 520II/VM Red would be another alternative. But currently the needle of the 300SE would nevertheless be the best deal - and also a very good match, as that one has still got 35 cu. Whereas the newer versions of the needles 20, 30 and 40 were lowered in compliance to 25 cu - so for use on a 505-2/-3/-4 with a new needle 20 it would nowadays actually be better to mount the ULM65E body with the extra weight plate that doubles its weight to 5 g...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

[thespirit3]

Some great advice - thanks guys.

It's currently fitted with an Ortofon DN165E, not a Dual ULM65E. I understand the DN165E is a near direct swap for the ULM65E (in terms of weight and quality). Is this correct? Perhaps I'll wait and judge the DN165E before considering an upgrade.

Steve