The audio mystics, agnostics and atheists thread

[zambembe]

I'm proud to present the next must-have audiophile accessory. Just in case, get two pair at a discount price! After all, there's a lot of bad music out there.

Horse manure audiophile accessory

plugged.nose1.jpg (31.91 KiB) Viewed 441 times

There's also an outstandingly cheap wife model:

Horse manure audiophile accessory

plugged-nose.jpg (9.25 KiB) Viewed 441 times

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Please continue the debate...

[Hanuman]

...at risk of missing any effect that..(..)...the manure treatment might actually have.

You relied on it in a point of argument, Hanuman. That's as good as a claim in my book. If I was in your shoes I'd start a thread about what the best sort of horse manure is and where to obtain it at a good price

Since we're splitting hairs here, I'll take the opportunity of picking up the split ends and double-splitting them:

If you saying that I'm relying on the premise that manure cable treatment is sonically beneficial in order to make my point then I believe you're wrong. I was relying more, I thought, on the idea of not discounting a hypothetical possibility that a proof of benefit might be found, however unexpected. I don't think I'm re-interpreting my post in stating that now. There's a very big difference between stating that something certainly exists versus stating that one is not certain that it doesn't exist. I suppose this makes me something of an agnostic atheist on the subject of manure treatments.

Am I missing something - the horse manure was imaginary, right?

[missan]

As I´m having a bit of trouble with all the intricate wording in this thread, I will just say I find no benefit with separate threads, only disadvantages for all.
missan

[Dimal]

As I´m having a bit of trouble with all the intricate wording in this thread, I will just say I find no benefit with separate threads, only disadvantages for all.
missan

Yep, my thoughts too...

Mal.

[raphaelmabo]

I do find that cables makes a difference. And no, expensive is not always better, but cables do alter the sound. I can't give a scientific explanation, but my philosophy is - even if a difference can't be measured it doesn't mean it isn't there. Our ears are very fine precision instruments. We may be able to detect more than instruments can detect. There are lot of things in the universe and life that science can't explain or find evidence about, but science is moving forward. It is in development. It is not ready or finished yet. Life is larger than science acknowledges, and may always be. It existed life on Earth before human invented science to proof their own existence for themselves.

[Ldg]

...I suppose this makes me something of an agnostic atheist on the subject of manure treatments.

Really ? Personally, i reckon all one can hope for by sitting on the fence about such things is splinters. I use a template which says if it can't be recorded, explained without contradiction, and pass blind A/B listening tests it might as well be considered baseless and having no real effect. But absence of any one of those checks is a bad sign, and failing them raises the alarm enough to seek verification on the others. And I'm happy enough to put such things in the 'baseless' bin, until or unless some verification arises. The alternative is to assume some credibilty, which is by definition baseless, and would have some of us running round farmyards with buckets of cables....and this is 'doing the right thing' rather than being right ??? 'Unless you try it you'll never know' ??? I don't think so !

Quite a few farmers would lend out manure to try at home, I'm sure. Or do so on a sale or return basis

Trouble is there seems a very large number of horse manure type ideas to wade through in audiophilia. Sitting on the fence doesn't work, i reckon. Seeking verification is far better, and entirely reasonable.

[Dimal]

I do find that cables makes a difference.

Is this with Double-Blind A-B Testing?

Mal.

[jake]

Bauzace
I have a fifth great un-supported notion:

A sound system can be so perfect that it cannot be improved upon, and so it is not worth trying.

Believed it for years. Luckily, real friends helped me.

[Hanuman]

I use a template which says if it can't be recorded, explained without contradiction, and pass blind A/B listening tests it might as well be considered baseless and having no real effect.

I do think (and I've suggested this before, you might recall) that in cases of folkloric audio tweaks, that consistently fail blind tests yet are strongly defended, the next phase of research really needs to be in the area of brain activity - are there internal effects in un-blinded tests where blinded tests strongly indicate no external effects?

[goatbreath]

I think this thread is probably going round in circles...Did I read it no,,but expectation bias tells me it is..So I feel I shouldn't read it because phantom perception may happen..

I think Richard Dawkins probably uses silver cables..Whereas Baphomet use a 5 pin din with a star earth..The Pope uses the purple QED's as they go with the Roman colour scheme..

[Ldg]

I do think (and I've suggested this before, you might recall) that in cases of folkloric audio tweaks, that consistently fail blind tests yet are strongly defended, the next phase of research really needs to be in the area of brain activity - are there internal effects in un-blinded tests where blinded tests strongly indicate no external effects?

You might recall a survey here, which seems to establish a connection between hemisphere dominance and whether one is likely to readily perceive sonic differences in cables. To emphasise this is NOT the same as being left/right handed, it concerns behavioural influences in classic psychology. The survey is here :

viewtopic.php?t=27412

At the time of posting, zero from 6 right brained respondents readily perceive such things, versus 6 from 18 left brainers. Now, I'm not saying that is a vigorous test or anything beyond a bit of fun. But it was a surprising result.

It does suggest there is a set of behavioural questions which can be used as a predictor for whether one might readily perceive such things. What it doesn't address is whether the behaviour traits are causal, or whether there is some internal common brain function association.

But, right or left brained doesn't help anyone pass blind A/B tests. Which history suggests always fail in such things. And to me that strongly implies the cause is behavioural, rather than possession of an 'extra sense'.

[jake]

N.Y Times Science section recently published an article stating that right brain/ left brain theories are based on incomplete research, new research has been showing that brains are individually wired as a person grows up, the dominance of one side or another cannot be prejudged to mean creative side and logical side.

[Ldg]

Hi Jake. But what 'right' or 'left' brained means in this context is the psychological/behavioural definition, rather than the physical wiring.

For example, in the classic sense, 'right' types are creative, 'left' are logical etc etc etc. Things like tidiness, punctuality, such things that relate to behaviour which would appear unrelated to sonic perception. Or, if one had to guess which group might readily perceive such things, the answer is counter-intuitive IMO.

I am a right-brained rationalist, FWIW, whose education and career has been in the physical sciences. An artistic creative scientist. An audiophile's nemesis probably And I don't readily perceive such things, much along the lines the survey predicts. Most rationalists are left brained, convention has it.

[Alec124c41]

Om mani Grados hum.

Cheers,
Alec