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stylus for mono vs stereo grooves

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Re: stylus for mono vs stereo grooves

Postby Bran Kulez » 16 Jun 2012 17:07

So here is the revised drawing with the dimensions ld provided, they workout perfectly.

The next step would be to draw a 1.0 mil stylus and insert it into the groove as Ld suggested. The exact location of the 1.0 mil diameter dimension on the actual stylus tip, the angle of the cone and the radius at the tip of the cone seem to be the crucial dimensions. Any input would be appreciated...

22426
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Re: stylus for mono vs stereo grooves

Postby luckydog » 16 Jun 2012 18:58

bran kulez wrote:The next step would be to draw a 1.0 mil stylus and insert it into the groove as Ld suggested. The exact location of the 1.0 mil diameter dimension on the actual stylus tip, the angle of the cone and the radius at the tip of the cone seem to be the crucial dimensions. Any input would be appreciated...


All good stuff, BK here's some input to help draw the stylus.

The stylus ball end is a half sphere, and you know the radius is 1.0mil. It will contact the groove walls where the tangent on the circular section is exactly 45 degrees, the groove wall being at 45 degrees. This is the big clue !

Above the half sphere, the included angle of the cone is between 40 and 55 degrees.

Prepare to be amazed, BK, and remember those groove dimensions are abs min, not typical !
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Re: stylus for mono vs stereo grooves

Postby Bran Kulez » 16 Jun 2012 19:07

Got it, Thanks!

I'll sketch it out after I install an air-conditioner for the little lady... :roll:
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Re: stylus for mono vs stereo grooves

Postby Bran Kulez » 17 Jun 2012 03:20

Wife is cool and happy... :D

So here is a sketch of a stereo groove per ld's dimensions...

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and a side by side comparison of where a 1.0 mil stylus tip intersects the groove walls on mono and stereo grooves...

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I realize that this is hardly conclusive and doesn't prove that a 1.0 mil stylus tip will damage a stereo groove, but it does appear that doing so would be less than ideal... any thoughts?
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Re: stylus for mono vs stereo grooves

Postby luckydog » 17 Jun 2012 09:48

Good stuff, BK. That looks about right to me. But one needs to remember these are absolute min spec width/depth grooves, not typical. And the abs min stereo dimensions don't describe the situation with mono programme material. With mono grooves, depth/top width is constant. With stereo grooves, depth/top width varies according to programme material.

Back to the OP, for mono programme material cut on a stereo lathe, depth would be at the nominal centre of the range. This will be much larger than the abs min stereo spec, because the is no vertical modulation in mono. What this is in practice, I don't know. But since the playing time of mono and stereo LPs is about the same, my guess is the nominal centre range groove dimensions for mono and stereo is about the same as the mono case.

If you go on to draw a stereo spherical (0.7mil radius) in a stereo groove you'll see how high it can ride, during stereo programme material worse case. Also how there's not exactly much space for line contact stylii to avoid riding the crown worst case if the claimed contact lengths were true...........

But yes, a 1mil spherical stylus rides the crown of a stereo groove with stereo programme material worse case spec, and that probably isn't good, hence the recommendation not to do it. It's a close call though, and much depends on what typical-min is in practice. I don't know enough about real stereo groove depths to comment, but Yosh's excellent site might well have some more info.

Good stuff, BK.
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Re: stylus for mono vs stereo grooves

Postby Bran Kulez » 17 Jun 2012 15:00

Thank you ld, you have been extremely helpful.

btw, Yosh's site is amazing!
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Re: stylus for mono vs stereo grooves

Postby ljperez84 » 24 Apr 2014 23:21

Hi Guys, newbie question (this is my first post :oops:)

I recently got my first turn table, a marantz TT-4000 and I had the RCA cable replaced. Since the cartridge it came with seems to be from a generic brand I ordered the AT95E, which if I'm right has a elliptical stylus.

Some of my first LPs purchases are first pressings of Sgt Pepper and Rubber Soul in mono. :mrgreen:

The question is. Are the elliptical stylus suitable for mono records? Or should I think about a conical stylus for these records?

I swear I read the whole thread but it's a little advanced for a Newbie.

Thanks!
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Re: stylus for mono vs stereo grooves

Postby Manu_nayar » 25 Apr 2014 05:55

In my experience I dont think it can damage microgrooves . I use OMD25 otofon MONO cart brand new 0.4mV 470 ohm usd.60/- less than 40hr now , mounted on SME3009 .stylus tip is ultra thin . so far so good. it was replaced by ortofon MC20 supreme and Dynavector 20hX . Grado Ref.Platinum , I have sold all of them . OMD25 is so marvellous , clean silent background. no etching noise even if you play unclean LP/ep 33 /45 . both MONO & stereo , huge saving.
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Re: stylus for mono vs stereo grooves

Postby tubewade » 26 Apr 2014 18:47

You can use 1.0 mil, 0.7 mil or elliptical styli on any microgroove record, whether mono or stereo, and it will not harm the groove if set up correctly. The problem happens if a very old mono cartridge with little vertical compliance is used on a stereo record it will cause problems because stereo grooves have different information on the left and right wall of the groove, which results in both lateral and vertical stylus motion.

The Ortofon D25 stylus is the same as a Pro-S, perhaps with a slightly different bushing, and I use these Pro-S as an option on all types of records with results similar to those obtained by Manu_nayer. On some records it works very well, on others not quite so well, as far as noise and reproducing worn records with listenable results.

As for what is better, elliptical, small conical or larger conical, no one can say as it depends on the condition of the individual record you are playing, and this is precisely why I keep a variety of styli at hand. You just have to try it and see for yourself.

Best regards.
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Re: stylus for mono vs stereo grooves

Postby Manu_nayar » 26 Apr 2014 19:46

ok thanks for the detailed explanation , now I got it. I will be getting one denon Dl-103 soon -brand new .
cheers.

Manu
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otofon set up trans

Postby Manu_nayar » 28 Apr 2014 15:11

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... fresh=true


hello
Im planing to buy one T5 mc transformer set up. pls, see the above link sale on ebay.
can some one share their experience. I use DIY HTMC design phono stage battery 9X2 V powered unit . my cart dl 103 denon .
This MC resistance 3 to 40 ohm.
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Re: stylus for mono vs stereo grooves

Postby 1200y3 » 28 Apr 2014 16:23

As vexogtr stated above "use the stylus that sounds best".

It is true, (if only for ancient LPs) that stylus size changes the sound. But the cartridge quality has to allow for it as well. If you take a look at Shure's cartridge array through the years, you will notice a vast selection of cartridge housings and shapes, while the actual transducer is the same.
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Re: stylus for mono vs stereo grooves

Postby Manu_nayar » 28 Apr 2014 18:33

hello 1200y3
so you mean to say that a big No , or you wont advise to go for it? .
Well ,I do take your valuable advise, one of my other audiophile friend who also said to me the same . I think I should listen to you guys. As you have said ,its better to go for low output cart. Thanks buddy. Manu Nayar Dubai
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