Complete set for new kid on the block

[Technik]

Hi everyone

As you can see from the post count I'm new here. I'm also new to vinyl - I remember my parents listening to these but my generation were CDs and now it's all mp3 and similar, sadly. I absolutely LOVE! the sound of vinyls, the warmth and depth, it's magic.
I've been putting it off for a year but now decided to buy a turntable and all the rest that's needed but there is so much gear around that causes me to become more confused the more I read. So decided to do something un-manly - ask for help
I have a tiny budget of around £150 to buy everything and that means turntable, amp, speakers and anything else needed. I could upgrade things a bit later but wanted to start now and enjoy those records. My requirements aren't high and I don't like very loud music (neither my neighbours). I was thinking of and old school Hi Fi seperates set with a turntable at the top, amp, equalizer, tuner and maybe a CD player and a set of speakers. You know those old style Technics sets - I think they were alright (like I'm an expert or something ). There's quite a lot of stuff on the very well known auction site but I don't know what to look for. There's so much to have in mind - which turntable is most reliable, is it direct drive or belt, what kind of amp, how much Watts on the amp and how much on the speakers....?? oh my
I'm based in UK so any british orientated advise would be mostly appreciated. In the mean time I will browse this forum to look for my answers.

Thanks in advance

[lensmanMK2]

if youre buying old gear you'll need to tinker sooner or later.. new gear will buy you a few years in that respect.

so big question,do you like diy?

[Rob998]

£150 is a tight budget, but do-able. You need a Turntable(obviously) an Amplifier & some speakers, plus some speaker cable (from Maplins or similar, no need to spend a lot on this).

For speakers look at something like Mordaunt Short MS10i s for about £20-£40, which is an absolute steal!

Amplifier: Nad 3020 for about £50-£70. A classic & still sounds good today.

as for the turntable, well you might luck out & get a giant killer for the £50 you have left to spend, but more realistically look at 80s-90s fully auto stuff from Technics, Marantz, Denon etc, which will be OK to get you going for that price. Ask here before you buy.

Old CD players can be had for about £20-£30, and you don't need an equalizer, but I've seen them go for as little as a tenner.

Obviously, you'll have to factor in postage & probably a new stylus(needle).

Happy hunting!

[cats squirrel]

Rob has it about right, IMHO. It is possible to get a record deck, amplifier and speakers for under £150 if you don't mind a scratch here and there. And if you buy old British stuff, it will be way better than the plastic stacker boxes which replaced them. I put together a system for a nephew recently:
turntable: Goldring Lenco 75 £40, needed a new idler wheel, and cartridge
amplifier: NAD 3020 £60 from second hand shop
'speakers: Celestion Ditton 15's, £10 from a car boot sale.

Add the necessary leads and cables (make them if you can, far cheaper, and better than most), and there is a decent starter system.

[satanfriendly]

Had a look around and there doesn't seem to be that much to go at on the turntable front at the moment (searching the usual resources and places), but as starters (if the bidding doesn't go mad):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Revolver-turn ... 35bcfec2a8

Very nice at the price and with a half decent arm. Like

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PIONEER-PL112 ... 3a755e963a

The Pioneer could be a damn good buy if the price keeps low. Like

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JVC-QL-A5-Dir ... 3f1849c081

Amplifiers a little bit better to go at:

http://www.greenhomeshop.co.uk/shop/ind ... ts_id=2557

http://www.greenhomeshop.co.uk/shop/ind ... ts_id=2359

http://www.usedhifishop.co.uk/index.php ... ts_id=1112

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rotel-RA-930A ... 3f18824d8f

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JVC-Nice-Chun ... 1e6e8f527c

The Rotels I really do rate and IMO better than the NAD3020's. Come with phono stages which helps. The JVC I really do like if only for it's 'old school appeal' and general condition given its age. Again with a phono stage which allows you to connect the turntable directly without the need for a seperate phono amp which will only add to your costs.

Speakers:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/mordaunt-shor ... 35bcc29b6b

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TDL-Nucleus-2 ... 48458e3955

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TDL-RTL2-Floo ... 3a75656d9b

Large full on sound with a bass which can sound overwhelming in a small room. Need space to work.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TANNOY-MX2-MA ... 3a758e7402

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tannoy-MX2-Da ... 35bcf366f7

The Tannoy's because they usually produce a good honest sound. Not to say these do though as never heard them, but they look good value.

All a bit mix and match in reality which if you get it right could go below the £150. Personally I'd go with a record deck in full working order and good condition with a cartridge unless you don't mind getting in to the guts of it all, which although not rocket science at the basic level, I do not feel is the best way to get on the ladder.

I'd forget the idea of an equalizer as it would be wasted. The amps I have picked out have the basic bass and treble which is about as much as you'd ever need. The CD player you could stick on at a later date and there are plenty to be found on E-Bay at less than £20.

Agree with cables. Maplins or Richer Sounds should see you good to go.

If anything this is the kind of direction I think you should be aiming for. You can always move forward and get further in to the black art of vinyl at a later date.

[Technik]

A BIG thank you guys for such detailed answers. Especially you "satanfriendly" because you were even bothered to look for everything and show me ready to buy examples. Thank you.

So I think I could put together:
turntable - Pioneer PL112D
amp - Rotel RA930AX
speakers - either Mordaunt short or Tannoy MX2 (I'm leaning slightly more towards Mordaunt as they look a bit nicer)

What about these:
Technics amp
Technics deck
I love the detailing on that Technics deck but if it looks so nice it may go at a very high price.

A couple more questions if I may.
What does it mean that a speaker can be Bi-wired? Is it that you can double the power by connecting the cables to both ports?
Can I stack the turntable on top of the amp or should I put them separately? I've read about vibrations interupting the turntable but would an amp affect it?
You guys were talking about cables - could any of you guys please give me a link to an example that I could get?

[raphaelmabo]

NAD 3020 or Rotel 920 or 930 are classic buys for audiophiles on a budget.
I myself had the NAD 3020i, and it was very lush sounding, a warm yet powerful sound, big soundstage, and very nice phono input for MM cartridge. The Rotel 920 (20 watt) or 930 (30 watt) is also very good, but different sounding - not as warm and lush as the NAD, instead more neutral and lively, more "hi-fi correct" but without the sensual organic qualities of the NAD. Both are more powerful than the rated watts. It really is a matter of taste which one to buy, but for best sound they needs to be mated with good speakers. For the NAD I would recommend neutral sounding speakers, since warm speakers with rounded off treble could be too much. I had my NAD 3020i teamed up to a pair of Dali 104 floor standers. Very smooth sound. Something like a small and poppy stand mount /bookshelf from Mission would be a nice combination.

Oh the NAD 3020i was the latest and best sounding of them all before the 3020 was replaced by the 302. 3020i is more detailed and more musical and lively than earlier 3020's, simply sounds more open and still organic. If you get a NAD 3020, make sure it is the 'i' version.

Technics... My experience with Technics.. is from amps 80's and early 90's, and while they are smooth sounding they are not as involving or inviting as, say, a NAD or Rotel.. Technically impressive, but bland sounding IMHO.

[Rob998]

A couple more questions if I may.
What does it mean that a speaker can be Bi-wired? Is it that you can double the power by connecting the cables to both ports?

Biwiring is a waste of time & money IMO. It doesn't increase the power & only adds to the spaghetti behind your system. If you are determined to use both inputs on your speakers, replace the solid "jumpers" & make some out of whatever speaker cable you decide to use. Bi-amping is something different & gains are to be had there, but that's something to consider down the road a bit.

Can I stack the turntable on top of the amp or should I put them separately? I've read about vibrations interupting the turntable but would an amp affect it?

If you can put the turntable not on top of the amp then that is preferable, mostly because the footprint of the turntable is likely to exceed the available surface area of the top of the amp! No need to go nuts, for instance putting the TT on a reasonably sturdy piece of furniture will do the job. If you have room next to the amp on whatever you are putting the rest of the kit on (eg sideboard, coffee table) then this is fine for the time being.

You guys were talking about cables - could any of you guys please give me a link to an example that I could get?

Go to Maplins or any electrical hardware shop, they will probably have a few reels of speaker cable, buy however much you need. Thicker is generally perceived to be better, especially over longer runs. If you're not sure, buy something in-between the bellwire & the national grid cabling.

There is all kind of theorising about different compositions & constructions of cables (silver/tellurium/unobtanium, twisted/not twisted etc, etc, ad nauseum) and this is something you can stress about, experiment with & make your own mind up on in the fullness of time. If I were you I'd just get myself going with whatever you can for the time being.

[mickb69]

I got a pair of speakers, mission 731 biwireable from cash converters in Wigan, £35 and they sound amazing.
I also got, (from fleabay) an arcam alpha 3 amp for (if I remember right) £37 and it's mint.
That's quality but budget gear and you can use it as long as it lasts.

But the more you spend on a record player, the more prissy and finicky they can be and the more of a headache you will have, you can always get a fancy better one later on, at this early stage you may end up being put off by gear that takes setting up and you're never quite sure if it's right,
I say just get something plug and play simple so you can just enjoy your records.
I have a scrappy plastic 90's aiwa table that came with the stereo unit and it sounds fine, you can pick them up for peanuts, they'll do the job hassle free.

When you buy a second hand turntable be sure to budget for at least a new stylus. Don't forget to see it working

[Rob998]

cash converters in Wigan

That shop is amazing. I got a MIM Fender Precision Bass from there for £50 a couple of years ago, really good nick, just a couple of belt buckle marks on the back.

[mickb69]

With regards to bi wiring, y'know how speakers have a bass and treble speaker, and one set of cable,
That cable goes in through the back of the speaker box and is wired through a crossover, which divides the signal and sends it to the speakers.
When you bi wire, you bypass the electrical gubbins and take one length of cable direct to the bass speaker, and one length of cable direct to the treble speaker.
In the audiophile type of thinking, any complicated or unnecessary electrical gadgets are obstructions in the signal path and create electrical interference or cause vibrations and all sorts, so less is more.
At our level, there are not really any benefits from this, just a case of rubbish gear, or not rubbish gear.

I do have my speakers bi wired, and to be honest, at this level of quality/price etc, there is hardly any, if at all difference,

[mickb69]

cash converters in Wigan

That shop is amazing. I got a MIM Fender Precision Bass from there for £50 a couple of years ago, really good nick, just a couple of belt buckle marks on the back.

Nice one, I got a fender jag stang for 250 quid and maxed out my very first credit card, the rest as they say, is history...

[mickb69]

Rob, do you go in the john bull, and the boulevard? My brother's the drummer in riff raff (Bolton) and they play there often, if you like classic hard rock and you hav'nt seen em, you should check them out, they'll rock your socks off

[Rob998]

If I'm off work on a Saturday I occasionally get to The Boulevard on a Friday night, but I've not managed it for a while (either a Saturday off, or a night out!. But I'll keep my eyes open for them, cheers for the tip!