It's time to replace my DL 110...please help me choose!

[bjorn]

Today I made some rough calculations and found that I probably have about 1000 hours of playing time on my Denon DL 110 cart, which is enough to make me nervous about playing my pricier records with. I love this cart, it replaced an AT440mla and I feel like it thoroughly outperformed it on every level even though the Denon is a cheaper cart. My table is a Pro-Ject 1 Xpression, my preamp is a Cambridge 640p.

Here's my main concern, the consensus generally seems to be that the Denon is nearly unbeatable at its price point and I really don't want to spend too much more if I do replace it with something else. I may simply buy another Denon since I know that it works well for me. However, if there is a cart that can offer better detail, and possibly some improvement in handling inner groove distortion, than I'd consider spending a little more. I've looked at the Nagaoka MP 150 or 200, Audio-Technica AT-F7 (it's been mentioned elsewhere that my preamp doesn't have enough gain for this one, any truth to that?), or Ortofon 2M Blue. I'm all ears if there is something else out there worth considering. Thanks!

[steve195527]

I personally think most Denons are about best you can buy at their prices.One thing that I find great about them as well is if you buy a new one it sounds almost identical to one you replace,their quality control is 1st rate,unlike some other vendors with wide variances between different units of the same model

[bauzace50]

@ bjorn,

I agree completely with steve195527. The quality and precision of Denon cartridges is closely consistent within one model, and accross the entire line of different models. I know after having owned DL-160, DL-103R, DL-340, DL-S1, and NOW (just arrived today) one DL-110.

The visual inspection of the new DL-110 corroborates the quality accross the entire line, and quite especially with the diamond tip, its quality mount, and its quality cantilever. They are a joy to see.

Auditions of my spanking new DL-110 will begin later tonight, and I have high expectations.
From my memory of owning one Ortofon 2M Black and one Denon DL-160 during the same period, I can say that BOTH were difficult to distinguish from the other, although the Denon was slightly softer in the upper midrange and lower treble (just the opposite of what one might expect from a MC unit), and allowed me to have longer listening sessions without personal fatigue. This characteristic was closer to my personal preference...which may, or may not be, your preference.

Best wishes to you,
bauzace50

PS- I perceive the Denon cartridges as Top VALUES, too. It seems that the folks at Denon have high respect for one's dollars. They deliver a lot for your money.

[bjorn]

I find the sound of the Denon to be well balanced, and like you say I rarely experience fatigue from listening to it. I'm sure you'll love your 110 as much as I do, thanks! Also, if it can hold its own against the nearly $700 2M Black it's definitely an excellent value.

[bauzace50]

@ bjorn,

It goes against the grain to "feel" that lower priced units may perform at high levels.

What I can say from having my DL-103R, acquired about four months ago, is that it has a barely distinguishable smoothness in comparison with the DL-160 which I keep. The character of the low bass is full and controlled, but ever slightly less forceful than the DL-160. (This, in use with the Denon AU-300 LC "budget" transformer).

If you look into LP Gear from Nevada, you will see that both units will be about $379 for the DL-103R, and about $260.. for the Transformer. Those sum about $639., or $500. in addition to the DL-110. And all that for a slight difference in sound and slightly better tracking abiity, at 2.5 grams.

The sport of Vinyl Enthusiasts is a game of inches? Well, no. That's what Woody Hayes said about football, I believe. But it's a game of millimeters and semi-decibels ( as well as difficult tradeoffs!).

Regards,
bauzace50

[bjorn]

An excellent point, $500 certainly doesn't seem worth a barely distinguishable improvement in sound quality. The problem is, I don't think a lot of people can bring themselves to be as objective as you are.

[bauzace50]

@ bjorn,

Thanks for your observation. I have something to report, now that I have mounted the DL-110. Tracking at exactly 2 grams and 1.8 antiskate on my SME 309 tonearm.

The Shure TTR-117 (ERA V) Test LP is tracked as well as my DL-103R. Not perfect but darned good!

The Hi Fi News Test LP is tracked perfectly including the infamous 4th band at 300 Hz.
A German test Lp is tracked perfectly up to the limit of 100 microns at 300 Hz, which is about equivalent to the HFN recording.

Musical tracking on the Direct To Disc "The King James Version", trumpet solo on "Corner Pocket" song: perfect tracking. Also, full-range big band sound, to include the cymbal treble rythm.

Anitra's Dance (from Peer Gynt) on classical music is passed with complete clarity on the high orchestral bell and very soft violins with exquisite tone. But Dvorak's " Carnival Overture" with full orchestral vigor, begins to show a bit of strain on the full volume scale.

That's where the DL-103R passes with total aplomb and ease. That piece is a " tour de force", with capacity to separate the men from the boys. And it did, up to a subtle point.

So, the DL-110 showed some sign of strain (but not outright mistracking) on one specific, and intentionally difficult band, which I keep for that precise purpose. This might get better with additional playings of the cartridge. But I do not believe in " burning in" cartridges. An iconoclast position.

From a 45 minutes audition one can observe a difference from the higher cost spread, which is small but audible. In perspective, one can detect a subtle point where the DL-110 can be bettered. But the tonal character is the same as the rest of the Denon family...remarkable in itself.

Time for graduation? Possibly.

Good luck ,
bauzace50

[Alec124c41]

The Denon DL-301 II is definitely better than the DL-110, and the 640P can handle it well.
The 301 is one of my favorite cartridges.

Cheers,
Alec

[steve195527]

@ bjorn,

I agree completely with steve195527. The quality and precision of Denon cartridges is closely consistent within one model, and accross the entire line of different models. I know after having owned DL-160, DL-103R, DL-340, DL-S1, and NOW (just arrived today) one DL-110.

The visual inspection of the new DL-110 corroborates the quality accross the entire line, and quite especially with the diamond tip, its quality mount, and its quality cantilever. They are a joy to see.

Auditions of my spanking new DL-110 will begin later tonight, and I have high expectations.
From my memory of owning one Ortofon 2M Black and one Denon DL-160 during the same period, I can say that BOTH were difficult to distinguish from the other, although the Denon was slightly softer in the upper midrange and lower treble (just the opposite of what one might expect from a MC unit), and allowed me to have longer listening sessions without personal fatigue. This characteristic was closer to my personal preference...which may, or may not be, your preference.

Best wishes to you,
bauzace50

PS- I perceive the Denon cartridges as Top VALUES, too. It seems that the folks at Denon have high respect for one's dollars. They deliver a lot for your money.

Where you wrote DL 340 did you DL 304?if you did was the DL S1 worth the extra outlay,been considering trying one but like the 304 so much not sure if the extra would be justified?

[bauzace50]

Steve,

Oops! Yes, I meant DL-304. May I say that the DL-S1 was definitely worth it for me. It replaced my previous 304 which met its premature end with a broken cantilever!

The DL-S1 was better for me in terms of better tracking ability, full-bodied sound from top to bottom, freedom from any midrange suckout, and a special sense of ease and clarity on any recording. It now lives with another enthusiastic owner, because I needed to raise some cash at the time. He has it as his only preferred cartridge. Definitely worth its price, without a doubt (but the DL-304 is no slouch, either). Either one is a solid value, with truly valuable return for the price.


Regards,
bauzace50

[raphaelmabo]

The DL-110 has an inviting tonal performance. Sure there are other cartridges, but they sounds different. When it was time to replace my DL-110, I went for the Goldring 2200 instead of getting a new DL-110. Also note that the DL-110 does not have, to my knowledge, a replaceable stylus - but many other cartridges have. Ok, on with the story - I went with the Goldring and I got a totally and tonally different sound. The Goldring was more hard-hitting, more detailed and did not have the lush warmth to the midband and bass as I found the DL-110 to have. The Goldring worked better with new recordings, new records with contemporary electronic and dance music, for example the Pet Shop Boys "Pop Art" singles collection, which I have in a 3 LP box, sounded impressive with the Goldring - with hard-hitting precise bass and a dynamic presentation. However, it was a bit too bright and sharp on older records. For example my collection of Dionne Warwick LP's didn't sounded as good as they used to do. And my reference LP - the Tears for fears "Seeds of love" and especially the track "Woman in chains" was clear but lacking in emotion somehow. My system is on the neutral side, and has a very informative treble. Goldring was too much in my system, but I can see it as a wonderful cartridge in systems that are more warm and needs to be spiced up. The Goldring had better soundstage than the Denon and was more detailed, but on the whole it wasn't right for me and it was too picky on the LP's I have - it wasn't a great all rounder. Plus that it showed the surface noise way too much, the Denon was more silent here.

I eventually ended up with the Sumiko Pearl, which costs less than both the DL-110 and the Goldring. This is a more neutral cartridge. It may not have the extended treble information as the Goldring, it has a fatter and fuller sound, with a touch of warmth but not as lush as the Denon and not bright as the Goldring, and it works better with worn out records. Not as picky as the Goldring. All in all I am pleased with the Sumiko, it is a good all rounder. I won't say it is better than the Denon, nor is it worse. It is slightly different. Oh, and I like the way Sumiko Pearl handles my reggae-records! But note, the Pearl does not smoothens out bad recordings - it favors good recordings and if the recordings has a touch of warmth in them, so much better. It tracks well and doesn't looses it's thang or grip on old worn out records. I can even play a scratchy Soul II Soul with it!

The Ortofon 2M's is also leaning towards the bright side, like the Goldring, and so are the AT 120's (they are smooth and airy but not warm). However if this is what you want, if you have a warm system and it needs to be spiced up than those are likely to be good choices and works well with the low mass Pro-Ject tonearms. But since you didn't liked the AT-440 then this route may not be a good one for you.

The up-market Nagaokas seems to be more lively than the cozy and warm budget MP-11. It is an interesting choice, but I can't comment on how the 150 is in comparison to the DL-110.

If you like the character the DL-110 has, then you may be disappointed if you choose something else.

[bjorn]

Great points all around, thanks everyone. I'm taking a close look at the DL-301 II.

[bjorn]

I just picked up a DL-301 II on ebay for an excellent price, I'll post my thoughts once I get a chance to give it a spin. Thanks again for all the advice.

[bauzace50]

bjorn,
we'll be waiting for a happy outcome!

bauzace50