Dual Lubrication Question

[pentode]

Hi,
Does anyone have any experience with using white lithium grease on the cam wheel of Dual turntables? It seems most of the online references suggest using basically any white lithium grease, but many people out there quickly warn against using anything with petroleum distillates on plastic parts.

While I know that non-mineral-oil-based lithium grease does exist out there somewhere, every one I looked at today said "contains petroleum distillates" on the container.

Should I assume that since lithium grease is recommended (and in fact the original Alvania No. 2 is a mineral-oil based grease) that the cam wheel on these turntables isn't vulnerable to petroleum distillates? I'm having trouble reconciling these 2 apparently contradictory bits of information.

[aardvarkash10]

I would hazard a guess that the guys at Dual knew what they were doing when they selected the lubricants....

[pentode]

That's what I'd tend to believe as well, so the question is, what is actually a good substitute for the hard-to-find Alvania 2 grease? One company out there that sells lube kits for turntables substitutes Retinax EP2 for the Alvania, and the datasheet for the Retinax clearly states "care must be taken that this product does not come in contact with rubber".
Most sources say "any white lithium grease," but all formulations are different- some of the sprays contain lots of solvents to temporarily thin the grease out, etc. I don't know for sure, but it appears to me that the cam wheel is made of some kind of acrylic, and acrylic is notoriously sensitive to certain kinds of solvents. It would be nice to know specifically what's safe and what's not, or else to hear from someone who's been working on them for 40 years that virtually nothing will hurt the cam wheel.
Lastly, at the risk of being pedantic, Dual says to use white lithium grease, and yet they clearly _didn't_ use it at the factory. Everyone insists that you absolutely must clean off all the old grease first and never mix lubricants; Dual makes no mention of this, and yet recommends a lubricant that is totally different than what they used themselves.

[fscl]

Great question..... and timely......

Swore off my rescue turntable mission until I spied a dirty neglected Dual 1019 that was calling out to me.....

She cleaned up beautifully......

Factory lubrication was magnificent especially for her first servicing after 30-40 years. Yes the grease was old and dried out, however, it wasn't overdone, so basically all functions operated, just slower, as there was additional resistance to the various springs selected for young and supple grease.....

Shifting the controls and waiting to see what springs, levers, cams, gears, reed switch.... etc interacted and operated together made reviving mechanisms easy.

Which brings me back to the topic, plastic cam lubrication..... Mine is basically dry...with leftover moly graphite residue. The cam mechanism is working well now, however, it's dry so I am also pondering what to renew this with.......as I am also worried about the effects of a petroleum based grease on the plastic cam.

Caught this MSDS:

http://www.bmed.mcgill.ca/REKLAB/manual ... _jelly.pdf

Petroleum is in the name, however,:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candelilla_wax

Is organic....and shouldn't break down a plastic cam....

I figure if it's safe enough as a food additive, lip balm and binding agent for gum, as in bubble<------ see I'm still stuck.....
it should be safe enough for a plastic cam..... Mom used to put it up my nose to stop nose bleeds.....

Still would like to dilute PJ as it's a bit viscous..... . Acetone will attack the plastic cam, so unless I can think of another, considering/thinking a very thin application of PJ on the cam and raceway should do the trick.......

What do you think?

Fred and why the / this Dual..... 16 & 78 RPM was too good to pass up.... plus the incredibly heavy platter, heaviest in the Dual line.....

[rleon]

I thought Shell Alvania 2 was lithium based plus mineral oil. Isn't it?. Has anybody tried Triflow synthetic grease?, this is safe for plastics.

[RondineSr]

I would hazard a guess that the guys at Dual knew what they were doing when they selected the lubricants....

So did the guys that made Bell and Howell projectors with nylon (or similar) worm drive gears! They all cracked due to contact with petroleum based lubricants. I have serviced over 2 dozen of my own 16mm projectors and NO petroleum based lubes on plastic ever. I used a silicone based lube for plastics (superlube is one brand I believe) I would imagine the same to be true with Turntables. The gears in a projector are exposed to a lot of heat from the bulb so I would imagine the ill effects work quickly as opposed to a TT that is stored at room temperature or in a climate controlled environment.

[fscl]

Another Dual lube thread:

viewtopic.php?t=36025

I have since purchased Garage A Records Dual lube kit for a 1019.

Good luck

Fred

[Josey Wales]

I use oil and lube developed for fishing reels.
http://www.abugarcia.com/products/equipment/reel-oil
http://www.abugarcia.com/products/equipment/reel-lube

It is cheap and the lube is non petroleum based. The results so far have been excellent.

[larrybody]

I use a product call Ultra Lube. Got it a Lowes. It is a white Lithium Grease composed of high oletic plant based oil. It is non-toxic and biodegradable. Completely safe on plastic parts. Manufactured by Plews-LubriMatic.

http://www.Ultra-Lube.com