Upgrade p25 or modify

[robsanderson]

I've been considering upgrading my p25 to something like a michel gyro se (used) which will cost me about £400 taking into account the sale of the 25.

However after reading a lot of threads on here in the last few days I'm tempted to modify the 25 instead. I would probably end up spending more to upgrade the 25 so but know the value added will be mainly lost should I decide to upgrade at a later date.

As good as the groovetracer products are I feel by the time I've shipped them to the UK and possible extra customs charges I need to find cheaper alternatives. The Michael Lim products seem a good compromise?

Based on my understanding of what I have read here this is my list and order of importance:

1/ Alu Lim Sub platter and double pulley upgrade £108
2/ Counterweight (probably the michelle one) £80
3/ Delrin platter £180
4/ Decouple motor from plinth. Two options here, the Lim motor isolation base ot the srm tech silent base? both about £100

I'm only after things that make a sizeable impact, so far I'm looking at £468 which is more £ than swapping out to a gyro or other turntable. I do like the 25 though.

The rega is on a wall shelf and I've replaced the stock feet for sorbathane. Cart is a Shure v15 III. I use a cambridge 640p phone into a cambridge 740a integrated driving Linn Kaber floorstanders. I've been really impressed with the way the 740a controls the Linn Kaber's which are a notorious speaker to drive and sounded lacking until this partnership (previously with a cyrus 8VSII)

Thanks in advance

Rob

[kabayiri]

Modify or replace ... that's how I saw it.

I don't think there is a right/wrong answer either.

For me upgrading my venerable Planar 3 was a learning process.

I have had it so long, I feel I know the sound well.

Every additional tweak and component change I could hear. Pretty much all of them I thought were a beneficial change.

I think only the Achromat II was unclear. Even then, I now believe it works better on some platter materials than others.

It's a good idea to have a budget! The temptation for that next tweak is just around the corner

[robsanderson]

Thanks kabayiri, I have an achromat (3mm) and thought it was a huge improvement over both felt and cork.

Good advice on the budgeting! I see modifying as a gradual process over time that will/can snowball its a case of realising when you've reached a plateau?

[kabayiri]

Hi Rob

As a background, in terms of hifi I recently realised that in the past i was a switcher/flitterer/call it what you will.

Take amplification. I have switched from Creek integrated, to Musical Fidelity integrated, to Arcam. Usually the sound was different, but was it better ? Perhaps not.

A recent addition of a power amp to my Arcam has been much clearer. It was an obvious step forward. It made me think about how I bought hifi in general. I realised that auditions in dem rooms did nothing for me except confuse, and that incremental changes were the way for me.

So for me, I have taken my lowly Planar3, and added :-

a) 24V motor and TT-PSU (£129 + £198 respectively)
b) isokinetik subplatter (£125, but there are cheaper versions out there)
c) white belt (£21)
d) Achromat ii 3mm (£57)
e) an acrylic platter + acrylic mat off wobbleu on here (£35 and great person to trade with )

I really like the motor/psu upgrade. If you are happy with the stock motor on your P25 someone on PFM is selling a Heed Orbit for £135 I believe). It might be worth adding to your list.

The subplatter change is a definite keeper. The white belt was a surprising and pleasant upgrade.

The acrylic platter for me lets you 'hear through' the music. The Achromat seems to work better on acrylic too.

Has the £500+ I have spent been good value? Some would argue not. I think some of these items have a fair resale value though; you don't see many 2nd hand subplatters come up for sale.

[robsanderson]

Thanks again! What would the Heed Orbit do to the p25?

Does anyone have experience of the 24v motor upgrade as to if its worthwhile on a p25 which supposedly had an upgraded/worked on motor? Would decoupling the existing motor be a better use of money than getting the 24v and leaving it coupled?

[kabayiri]

I don't want to be accused of hogging this thread, but ...

- before I got the 24V motor, I was mistakenly sold and fitted the better 110V AC motor, which I think is the one fitted to the P25 ? [This upgrade kit offered by Rega was superceded by the 24V pack].

That in my view is a good quality low vibration motor. It was definitely better than the old motor in sound quality terms. I don't think the 24V replacement is better quality; it just allows you to add on the external TT PSU should you desire.

The Heed Orbit / Isokinetik type external supply units seem to offer a good option, but some of them are £300+ new, which is why I suggested second hand.

I haven't bought a motor decoupling upgrade yet, but I just know I will at some point.

[wobbleu]

Another set of options...

Edwards Audio Alu Sub-platter 80.00
Isokinetik Ruby bearing 8.00
White Belt 20.00
Acrylteller Acrylic Platter (ebay) 128 euros delivered 108.00
TOTAL for now 216.00
Get used to that for a while - will be some noticeable differences.
Gives you a bit of spare cash for some new vinyl - you'll probably want to try some new music out because of the changes in SQ.
Pick up a second hand tecnoweight off ebay they come up regularly 50.00

Final stage, 18 months or so down the line, 24v motor upgrade and TT-PSU will tighten up the sound a bit more. You've got the newer motor with the double sided adhesive pad fitting on the P25 which is better than the older suspended type.

[nabil]

Another set of options...

Edwards Audio Alu Sub-platter 80.00
Isokinetik Ruby bearing 8.00
White Belt 20.00
Acrylteller Acrylic Platter (ebay) 128 euros delivered 108.00
TOTAL for now 216.00
Get used to that for a while - will be some noticeable differences.
Gives you a bit of spare cash for some new vinyl - you'll probably want to try some new music out because of the changes in SQ.
Pick up a second hand tecnoweight off ebay they come up regularly 50.00

Final stage, 18 months or so down the line, 24v motor upgrade and TT-PSU will tighten up the sound a bit more. You've got the newer motor with the double sided adhesive pad fitting on the P25 which is better than the older suspended type.

The P25 does not use the suspended motor-it used a newer motor derived from the P9. The upgrade to the 24v motor will allow you to use the TT-PSU which in my opinion offers a significant upgrade over the standard motor found in the P25.

[colver]

Robsanderson. Have you seen my Post 'P-25 upgrades galore'? Ive just about done the lot. Only things left for me to do in the future is to replace wiring with pure silver and plug a tecno weight on. However i can tell you that what i have at the moment is about as good as i have heard! Seriously its that good. There are some tracks that i have which will make the hairs stand up on the back of your neck. I recently purchased a Musical Fidelity x-lps v3 pre amp which will make a massive difference alone - you should get one for under £150. A 2nd hand 2m bronze cart which is smooth as silk with voices, - particularly female. I think the motor is good as it is, the SRM kit has a proper adjustable lubed bb which is better up to the job than standard. All the gear i got was about £360 plus an £80 tec weight, silver rewire maybe about £90 and if you are really fussy replace the mains cable with a quality silver shielded type possibly about 40 to 50 quid. It all would come to about £570. Low volume levels improve dramaticaly but high volume levels are incredible, as clear as day. Ive got the big B & W 683'S and i have to say the sound is very potent and 'live' like, extremely intoxicating! About 2 years ago i heard a £2500 gyro and as crystal clear as it sounded it didnt give the overal effect that my P-25 is giving now and thats before i am finished. If you live near me in Scotland you are welcome to come and hear for yourself.

[robsanderson]

Thanks for all the help and suggestions so far.

@wobbleu, thanks for such a wide range and informed set of alternatives. I'll have a look at those now. What is the difference between the ruby and ceramic bearings, both are the same cost?

@Colver, I have read your post, its one of the inspirations for this probably project. I think you were shockingly lucky to get that cart for so little! Sadly I'm too far to take you up on your kind offer to your home, I live Liverpool.

I'm told on the cartridge part of the forum my shure cart is unsuitable and I know there are better phono stages out there, I can't do it all at once so plan to attack the weakest parts first or seize opportunities that arise on the used market cart/phono/heed

The heed orbit or subplatter/double pulley/bearing mods are about the same cost which do people think will give me the biggest return for the money? I don't play any 45's but I assume the power supply is more than just a speed change?

So guys, do I buy the heed or get the sub/double pulley? Or is something else a better first buy?

[colver]

The sub-platter i got last week was from Isokinetik in the UK. They have 2 on offer - 1 at £99 and 1 at i think £129. To be honest i went for the cheaper model not because i was tight but it is solid all the way across whereas the pricier model has 3 one third cut outs kind of like the 'ban the bomb' logo. The solid model has more mass to it so prefered this to the lighter weight model. It came with a bottle of very high quality oil and uprated ceramic bb. Buy this and a white belt and you have 3 upgrades straight away for £120. As for carts, Ebay is the place for second hand choices although this week theres not much. A few months ago i got a Nagaoka mp-11 with brand new stylus fo £21! Boxed too! They Ort bronze i think was about £107 2 years ago but ive recently noticed that its right down on its belly so either another low hours cart or a new stylus for the Bronze. In all honesty im on Ebay at some point every day or night in the week thats the only way i get great bargains. To sum up, go for cart then immediately after take the above goodies, and then save for SRM-TECH 'ultimate rega package'.

[robsanderson]

thanks for the heads up Colver, I ordered the isokinetik sub platter and have now fit it and the ceramic bearing.

The rega has developed an odd rattle sound now just for a few seconds on startup of the motor, is disappears once up to speed. Its not the belt slipping it seems to be coming from the motor or the plastic pulley - any ideas?

[wobbleu]

Might be belt slippage it's turning a bit more weight at start up now, I generally give mine a start by spinning the platter slightly as I switch on.

Have you cleaned the motor pulley? might be worth doing that if it's not been done for a while - bit of isoprop and a cotton bud will do the trick (or one of those spectacle cleaning tissues/medi-wipe things)

[robsanderson]

Thanks wobbleu, it wasn't belt slippage I always spin the platter too. I removed the sub platter and added another drop of lube and it seems to have sorted the noise so it looks like it was rattling on the bearing or similar