Xindak XF-2000ES Power Conditioner

[Vinyl and Tube Dude]

Is there anyone on VE who have one or maybe a similar model?
I have two mains filters build the same place I bought my tube pre and poweramp. They work on the original amps. But not on my new transistor pre amplifier. Without the filter on the tubes I pick up little clicks from the power sockets. Mainly from the fridge I guess, but probably allso from other things in the apartment. It happens with my new pre amp with the filter on too, but is reduced though. I have been reading about all kinds of solutions and came to the conclusion that this power condtioner might be the answer. So if anyone got something like this or similar, please inform me if it can eliminate noise from the fridge ect.

[Dimal]

G'day "Vinyl and Tube Dude"....

Power Conditioners tend to be quite noisy and run very hot (waste energy), are usually expensive and very heavy. Have you given any thought to a reasonable quality UPS? They normally have a level of Power Conditioning and Voltage Regulation built in and quite reasonably priced these days.

Might be a more practical option...

Mal.

[Vinyl and Tube Dude]

Something like this maybe? http://www.thomann.de/dk/furman_plpro_dmc_e.htm

[Dimal]

G'day again mate...

It's not the sort of thing I would choose for a domestic situation, even here in our rural location where the mains voltage fluctuates quite a lot, to say nothing of all the 'noise', usually phase shifted. That unit and the others listed there, are all quite commercial/industrial in nature, which their spec's allude to. If you want to go all out on something like this, it will certainly do the job but I think it is somewhat over-kill. That's for you to decide though...

I was thinking more along the lines of a SOHO/Small Business UPS along the lines of this sort of thing... http://tinyurl.com/6nyts4r

This stuff does a pretty good job of cleaning up the incoming and outgoing power and should be fine doing what you want...

Mal.

[Vinyl and Tube Dude]

it cost 545 euro about the same price as the xindak. so the price is acceptable if it do the job. wont mind overkill if I get rid of the noise

[Mark E Smith's Dentist]

If you're thinking of spending that kind of money it might be worth getting an electrician to give you a dedicated circuit for your hi-fi. I've just had one put in, it didn't cost a whole lot (we were having some other work done at the same time) and it's made a big improvement to my system.

If you're getting pops from the fridge you can remedy it with a spark suppressing capacitor - not expensive or difficult to fit.


BTW I've used (still use in fact) mains conditioners and I've never had one that got hot or sapped much power. A couple of them have hummed due to being transformer based but their biggest problem IME is squashing the dynamics of power amplifiers. Not all of them do this, just the cheaper ones but they're the ones that give all conditioners a bad name!


JT

[Dimal]

it cost 545 euro about the same price as the xindak. so the price is acceptable if it do the job. wont mind overkill if I get rid of the noise

Wow!

That's expensive . The same unit (1,500VA) purchased here in Oz is less than half that cost.

Mal.

[Dimal]

BTW I've used (still use in fact) mains conditioners and I've never had one that got hot or sapped much power. A couple of them have hummed due to being transformer based but their biggest problem IME is squashing the dynamics of power amplifiers. Not all of them do this, just the cheaper ones but they're the ones that give all conditioners a bad name!

Without knowing the design of the units you're talking about, it's a bit difficult to make any kind of meaningful comparison. Decent quality units of contemporary design tend to operate at efficiencies approaching 85-90% (can be significantly less at low loads), the difference is irradiated as heat so depending on the overall rating of the unit, this wasted energy can be quite considerable. Also, the noise (hum) produced by these devices is due to quite complex ferro-resonant interactions between inductive and capacitive components, not a transformer as such. They utilise what is called a "Tank Circuit" as a feature of their design.

Modern solid-state designs tend to head down the Switch Mode front-ended Sine Wave Inverter route these days as they are silent for all intents and purposes and when properly specified, can be very reliable and quite efficient from 30% load and up - Good one's are not cheap though...

Mal.

[Vinyl and Tube Dude]

it cost 545 euro about the same price as the xindak. so the price is acceptable if it do the job. wont mind overkill if I get rid of the noise

Wow!

That's expensive . The same unit (1,500VA) purchased here in Oz is less than half that cost.

Mal.

I think it's a matter of local taxes and inflation. It might seem expencive to you. But with my average danish salary, it's an okay price. Actually hifi i Germany, one of our nabour countries,cost a bit more than in Denmark. And they have lower taxes than us. But back to the subject. I can buy a Furman Power Conditioner in a city close to my town. I'll see if they can lend me a demo.

[Dimal]

I'll see if they can lend me a demo.

Sounds good mate...

I guess "expensive" is a relative term, as you correctly point out but coming from an electrical engineering background, I have a good idea of what it takes to design and build such devices, and therefore what would be a fair price on the open market.

I no longer work, but when I did, my annual salary was AUD$200K+ so I'm not coming from a price point position, more about value for money from an engineering standpoint...

Hope you're happy with the results once a decision is made...

Mal.

[Vinyl and Tube Dude]

Yes l guess the elecronic parts only is a small part of the price on hifi and other stuff. but this price on furman power c. is not so bad comparid to other pc. I Hope it can "clean" my power. then it vould be value for my money

[Vinyl and Tube Dude]

I now see that Furman have two Power Conditioner with the same specs.
http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=PL-8CE
[url]http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=PL-PRODMCE[/url
Besides the voltmeter on PL-PRO the only difference I can see is that PL-PRO has Maximum Output Current at 16 amps and PL -8 CE has 10 amps. For home hifi use I would guess 10 amps output would be enough right? The PL -8 CE is allso half the price

[Dimal]

G'day again mate...

The 10A unit looks OK to me. The rating should be decided by the sum of the rated RMS loads of all of the equipment that will be connected to the device. This is normally located on each components' nameplate or in the User Manual specifications.

Once you know this, and if it doesn't exceed 10A, then all will be good.

Cheers,
Mal.

[Vinyl and Tube Dude]

Dimal: It looks like you know what you're talking about. Now that I got my eye on the Furman Power Conditioners, I now been looking at the full range. And it's not that I want to send a lot of money on it. If one of the cheaper models can filter noise and give the power I need for my hi-fi, I will go for that and spend less money. I'm not good with electronic technical terms. Could you please inform me if the M-10x E POWER CONDITIONER could do the job (on paper offcause) buy eliminating noise from the fridge ect.It cost about 107 euro and offcause there's no need to spend more money than I have to. When I wrote I dont mind to pay for overkill, it was in the sense of that I did not know about the other models from Furman. http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=03&id=M-10xE