need a turntable suggestion for transcription tonearm

[Bran Kulez]

I picked this beast up a few months ago and am not quite sure of what to do with it. It's a Barber & Howard G-1 "custom built professional phono pickup arm". 12-3/4" from horizontal pivot to stylus tip. The vertical pivot is about 2" shorter. 16" overall.

I mounted a shure M7-N21d cartridge with a Jico N3 stylus in it wired for mono and built a temporary plinth. I got the best sound out with the stylus max'd-out at 6 grams!

Listening to Odetta on this set-up made me glad I bought it. The bass is amazing, her voice has a depth that I hadn't experienced until now. Switching over to the turntables' stock arm with a Shure M95HE made me realize that man cannot live by 1 gram tracking alone.

So I'd like to find a turntable that would bring out the best in it, although it sounds pretty damn good on my belt-drive Pioneer.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[mosin]

...So I'd like to find a turntable that would bring out the best in it...

A Fairchild 750...$7,500-$8,000 USD.

Hey, you asked.

If your budget doesn't go there, however, you might try one of the idler driven Rek-O-Kuts.

Best,
Win

[Bran Kulez]

... Fair enough...

Assuming my house was worth that much and I could get a 5th mortgage, does this tonearm deserve a $8,000 turntable?

[Bran Kulez]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but should I be looking for a belt, idler or direct drive turntable to compliment this tonearm?

[J.D.]

Most would choose Idler or Direct, I would think, to counter what must be considerable stylus drag.

More importantly, though, what is six grams of downforce doing to your vinyl ?

Seems like the tradeoff your're achieving here --great bass and intense performance-- may be at the expense of the recording's lifespan. Yes, the cartridges of yesterday used what we'd call extravagant downforce, but ... You'd have to be really confident about good stylus profile (no flats, etc) in order not to have serious wear & tear issues ... Hard not to think that all that Vtf has almost got to be shortening the usable lifespan of your grooves.

(although I'm not advocating a return to the 1.o gram days, even the massive SPU only requires four grams .... two-thirds of what you're using ..)(We are talking about standard Lp Vinyl, here, right ..?)

Even though the heavy tracking weights were standard in the 1950s, I think not many systems were even capable of the high-freq resolution we get today -- and I wonder if that will get 'sheared off' with wear at six g. (Or are these older carts even capable of anything much above, say, 15kHz ?)

Interesting experiment overall, though ...

[Bran Kulez]

Thank you J.D.,

You raise a good question regarding the 6 gram tracking force and what it's doing to my vinyl. I've been playing mostly "bargain bin" vinyl so haven't been too worried about it. The stylus was only about $20.00 so it's a good match for the $2.00-3.00 records.

I would like to play some of my vintage mono recordings on it so I decided to take a closer look. Viewing the stylus under 80x magnification, I meticulously cleaned the stylus tip and cantilever removing all of the vinyl/dust build-up from previous playings. I then took one of my newer blue-note records and cleaned it with a 50-50 solution of distilled water and white vinegar with my disc-washer brush. Not state of the art, I know, but neither is the rest of my setup .

I set the tracking force to 4.5 grams and let it rip. After side 1 was finished, I looked at the stylus again under 80x mag. and saw only a very tiny amount dust particles on the tip, nothing that resembled sheared off vinyl. I cleaned the stylus again and then reset the tracking force to 6 grams, cleaned side 2 and after the side was finished playing I looked at the magnified tip and saw pretty much the same thing, only a small amount of tiny dust specs on the tip.

When I first got back into listening to my vinyl collection a couple of years ago, I bought some Discwasher D4 fluid from my local record shop and cleaned a record from my collection. As I watched the needle hit the vinyl I was shocked to see, with the naked eye, tiny bits of black vinyl thread get peeled away by the stylus . Anyway, the point is that I didn't see anything even close to what I experienced a couple of years ago with this tonearm and heavy tracking force.

[J.D.]

In the true spirit of what "transcription" is all about, maybe you've come up with a system for archiving vinyl. Play it only the once for the recording, at massive vtf pressure, and wring the Lp of all the music it's worth. (Then retire the record). Okay, maybe not.

Is this arm 'dampered' at all, via either fluid, spring, other methods ?

[Bran Kulez]

That's not a bad idea, I'd have to find the best media to preserve the character that the tonearm reproduces.

I don't think there is any damping material/fluid. The arm is a hollow 3/4" square (aluminum?) tube.

[KentT]

Gates, Russco, QRK, Rek-O-Kut Rondine with Hysteresis motor, Collins, are some good idler driven candidates for your arm. You'll most likely need to make a plinth to mount them in. Technics SP-10 Mk II, Mk III, SP-15, and SP-25 are superb DD choices also which may require a plinth made.

[Bran Kulez]

Thanks, the ROK's seem to be easier to find and less expensive so I'm looking at a L37 which has 33 and 78. The L34 which seems to be the most common on ebay has 33 and 45, I guess that's the only difference.

[flavio81]

6 grams with the rather big tip mass of the N3D stylus is not a good idea.

I'd suggest the Shure SC35C at 4.5 grams VTF. Much gentler on the record.

As for the TT, your TT is good enough. Want another suggestion? Any beefy idler drive turntable.

[Bran Kulez]

The N3 stylus is fairly new so I thought I'd break it in at 6 grams. It's now set to 4.5 grams and still sounds pretty good.

I tried installing my SC35C but it doesn't quite fit. The headshell's threaded anchors for the screws are too close to the front of the headshell. My M3D won't even fit, that why I used the M7-N21D, it has shorter dimension in front of the screw holes and fits perfectly.

I'm guessing this tonearm was built in the 1950's so I'm wondering what cartridge(s) it would have been designed for (?).

I would like to try the SC35C in it so I decided to make a couple of wood headshells without the front end restriction. I'll post some photos when they're done.

I'm wondering about your comment regarding tip mass. The Jico N3 has a .6 mil conical tip. The USA SS35C also has a .6mil tip, whereas the current SS35C has a .7 mil tip.

[mosin]

Thanks, the ROK's seem to be easier to find and less expensive so I'm looking at a L37 which has 33 and 78. The L34 which seems to be the most common on ebay has 33 and 45, I guess that's the only difference.

You may want to stick with the L34 because it has a better motor. If my memory serves me, the L37 has the infamous "death cube" motor that quits out of a clear blue sky for no apparent reason. I have one, but I don't remember where it is, so I can't check it for you. (That happens when you have a couple of dozen turntables.) Regardless, the L34 has a better motor.

Anyway, you may want to check to make sure that's what you really want before you pull the trigger on an L37.

Just saying...
Win

[Bran Kulez]

Thanks. It looks like both the L34 & L37 (among others) were outfitted with the square motor at some point.

I could use the 78 rpm of the L37 rather than the 45 rpm of the L34,...plus I have a tendency to root for the underdog , but your point is well taken.