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Why are people obsessed with 180g - Merged Thread

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Re: 180g what's the fuss?

Postby Audio_Man » 01 Apr 2012 00:18

Vinyl and tube dude. So you couldn't know about TT set up untill you discovered the internet? Well myself and others knew about it decades ago because we read it in magazines and books or asked a more knowledgable aquaintance. Surely you were aware that a stylus wears out and a cheap one more rapidly.

How can you call yourself 'vinyl and tube dude' if you are so unaware of the possibilities of retrieving information from the groove. The better the TT/arm/ cartridge the more you get because analogue is not limited as is a digital sample. So you can't accept a E2000 TT is better than a E300 TT ? You don't need to spend the price of a car but you can get better by spending more reasonable amounts. Just because I can't afford a E20,000 TT doesn't mean I am blind to the fact it is better than my own. Shows are generaly not a good way to assess equipment and make finite judgements.
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Re: Why are people obsessed with 180g - Merged Thread

Postby Vinyl and Tube Dude » 01 Apr 2012 09:26

My next TT will acturally cost about 2000£ infact (roughly converted £ to Dkr). The total amount of my current setup is about 9000 £. Offcause I know good quality cost money but I just think there's a physical limit where you just can't get more or better info out of an LP. Where that limit is in terms of money I don't know. But I think when you start with all kind of exotic wires and strange contructions, in my opinion, you move from actual listning to psychical delusion. Sure I can hear a clear diffence on a Rega P9 and my own Debut III and a clear diffence on a pair of Audio Note and my own Klipsch RB61. But I was not alone in have a beginning headache after 30 min. of listening to really expensive systems with that clinical sound I described before. And It gave me no musical enjoyment. Off cause I know there is good remastered Reissues 180 Gr. LP's but like this thread started out with, I too can't see what the fuss is about, I like those old LP's with all that comes with them of little pops and, like I said, most sounds really good you can't hear the surfacenoise when the music is playing. I have rediscovered vinyl a few years ago after listing to a rotel /Denon TT setup at someones house. In a private livingroom with a so called "modest" hi-fi it suddenly moved me and I could hear the wonders of vinyl in a way the high-end setups at shows couldn't. I attented these show in the first place to listen to tube amps. And what convinced me about getting tubes was a power amp at around 2000 £. My own cost around 1200£ 3 years ago. And about knowing about hi-fi magazines and so on. At the age of 20 I was a beerdrinking weed smoking metalhead who used my time and money on concerts, close, records and parties. I'm older, wiser (on some things :) ) and only smoke tobacco (oh my.. political uncorrect [-X ) and drink coffe now :) . People change you know, we haven't all been fullbread audiophiles your hole life. And besides, I am from the "CD generation" you might say. And I hope that a lot of people from the "MP3 generation" will find the wonders of good hi-fi when they (like me) get's older and think of other things than instent (musical) enjoyment.
And now I'll end this and go in and put on my newly bought Blue Note 68' LP "Elegant soul" with Gene Harris. It got a fair amount of scratches but man, can he play, it's just cooking and that's what's it's all about for me :) It's sunday, so I'll slap on my Grado RS 1, and yes they do sound better than the Goldrings I use at the computer :)
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Re: 180g what's the fuss?

Postby springer » 01 Apr 2012 09:52

fade away wrote:In the mid 80`s vinyl cost around £5.45 in Our price,i think? so 30 year`s on increase in price £25 not bad.

7" / 10" / 12" singles or 140g / 180g / 200g albums, new or second hand i don`t care, to know vinyl is out selling CD`s great!!!

LONG LIVE VINYL :D


It's not outselling CDs, but it is the only format INCREASING its sales.
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Re: Why are people obsessed with 180g - Merged Thread

Postby Audio_Man » 01 Apr 2012 12:26

Vinyl and tube Dude. You are clearly aware of quality differences yet continued to dismiss their relevance to improved vinyl replay which confused me. I do agree with you about silly priced cables and other accessories. Differences in cables, supports and such things is more system dependent than price dependent once you get above a basic quality level. As for hi-end systems on show dems, they more often sound bad because they pair all the most revealing and expensive components together (limited to those the exhibitor markets) without thought for the final sound. They end up with a overly detailed and brightly lit sound without paying enough attention to synergy and trying to emulate the musicality of a real live performance. Often less is more with correct component matching and attention to detail.

I am certainly not wedded to pristine new 180g pressings. Most of my collection is original vinyl either bought in the day or purchased used. But I do not enjoy levels of surface noise that intrudes into the music or multiple scratches clicking away. Hence I confine myself to at least EX+ pressings. Unfortunately the dishonesty and ignorance of sellers and shrinking availability of desirable music on pristine vinyl cries out for more reissues being made available. Most of my recent purchases are therefore new titles or quality 180g reissues.
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Re: Why are people obsessed with 180g - Merged Thread

Postby Vinyl and Tube Dude » 01 Apr 2012 18:30

I can understand the need for a good vinyl copy, used or new. And a good recorded LP is allways the best. What the fuss is about, I think, is when somesellers clain it to better than the pressings made from the releasedate and a few years ahead. That might be the case with Remasters /reissues. But I think it can scare some newcomers away from the pleasure of vinyl playback... "You should not buy that old stuff.. get our new copy at double the price". Some would think "why pay that kind of money when I can get 2 or 3 downoads or CD's with the same artist as the price for one LP?" As you probally know, there's a special feeling about browsing the web or, for those who live in a large city, browse through a used LP section to find the LP you're want for your collection. The smell of the old cover, put on the record after a good wash (low tech in my case, soap and water)and enjoy that sweet music and get a feeling of a tiny bit of history from, say, a 30 or 40 year old record. That is real alternative to digital music, I think, the hole aesthetic about the "ritual" of handling your records and put them on the TT, lower the needle and sit back and enjoy the music. In my case, the LP's for the "right" release date is "the real thing" and I admit that is psychical delusion because a reissue / remaster will probally sound the same but without the pops and clicks. But I don't mind the surface noise, as you know, brand new unplayed present releases can have surface noise too even after washing. And you can't compaire who I experiented vinylplayback back in the '80's with today since I now have better hi-fi and have differnt values than over 20 years ago. If I have met someone who really knew about hi-fi back then, I might have kept on buying vinyl along with CD's. But vinyl was out, CD's were in. Like today, downloads are in CD's are out. The differnce is that Vinyl allso er in and everybody a leats know about vinyl. Witch brings me back to the claim from some sellers. Let's get the message out: You can have a hole new musical experince for a reanable amount of money with a TT at a reasonable price and used and new recording allso at reasonable prices. I browse the web alot for new and old music and I been reading alot about hi-fi lately since i'm to change my pre amplifier and upgrade my TT and speakers, now when I will have money free of my budget again to save up this year. And I just get Pi**ed off buy the majorty of reviewers and sellers who claim to be able to hear the grass grow and who say call good desent hi-fi for entry level and "a good way to start". Some start there and stay there and that is just fine. On other forums I can read about some newcommer who ask about a new cartridge for his "entry level" TT and is told to change the dam'n Tt instead..what's that all about. No wonder hi-fi sale is in regression if the belief is that you have to use an obscene amount of money before you get the right sound. And if you can't hear the differnce on one cable from another, you're just a half def ignorant. That said, it pleases me to see that "What Hi-Fi" is making reveiws on producs at all price ranges and are focusing on the product's strenghs within it's limits... more of that. Tell people that the good old hi-fi at a reasoable price can be more than enough for the avage listner. It would be a giant step up from the smartphone or ipod anyway. Tell the avage listner that there is tons of LP's and CD's without compressed sound. And the music on the is far more alive and groovy that the mainstream one hit wonders they play on the radio and youtube. Thank's to the "older" persons who played pinkfloyd, Led Zeppelin and other 60's and '70's music (on CD's though :| )for me as a young man in the '80's, they're opend up my eyes for a hole new world of music and had shaped my music taste as it is even today. That and heavy metal and speed metal, don't listen to it now, but it turned me away from mainstream pop and made me open for all kind of music.
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Re: Why are people obsessed with 180g - Merged Thread

Postby fade away » 01 Apr 2012 20:19

Vinyl and Tube Dude Chill out please!!!

It`s just a Hobbie, in life there will always be product`s more expensive or cheap, or someone will have something we will never be able to afford, so what!!

Some people love 180g vinyl great, some people don`t that`s fine, some people say Beatles are the best band in the world, some people say Pink Floyd, depending on our taste`s.

I understand your concern`s to a point, but shop around for a cheaper deal i do, enjoy your music and system, let`s put a stop to this thread!!!
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Re: Why are people obsessed with 180g - Merged Thread

Postby Zaimejs » 21 May 2012 14:58

I'm resurrecting this old thread (not that old) because I finally purchased a new 180g album. I went to the record store with one specific purchase in mind. I wanted Norah Jones' new album, Little Broken Hearts.

I found one copy, but it was a 180g double vinyl with only 2-3 songs per side. Is this normal of the newer albums? Is it a marketing trick to make you think that the sound quality will be higher because there are less songs per side... or is that just silly?

It sounded very good... aside from the pops and clicks... very static prone white vinyl... but I don't know if it sounded better than a normal LP.

I asked if they had it available on a standard LP, but the record guy said "Nope, that's it."

The biggest negative, of course, is that you have to get up and change the record after only a two-three songs. And they didn't make it so it's 1/4:2/3 so you can set the autochanger to drop in order.

Meh.
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Re: Why are people obsessed with 180g - Merged Thread

Postby kelvinMunson » 21 May 2012 15:23

Does Norah play at 33 or 45rpm ?

The most recent Foo Fighters albums, for example, have only 3 tracks each side because they play at 45rpm and, at that speed, the music wont fit nicely on two sides of an LP. They are pressed with the aim of achieving the best audio quality, which they do.
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Re: Why are people obsessed with 180g - Merged Thread

Postby Zaimejs » 21 May 2012 15:27

33 rpm. Standard 33 lp. So I don't know if there are more grooves per song or if it is just some kind of a gimmick.
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Re: Why are people obsessed with 180g - Merged Thread

Postby kelvinMunson » 21 May 2012 15:40

I guess really the question is, how long each side lasts, rather than how many songs. You could have 3x six minute songs per side, which add up to typical LP length.
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Re: Why are people obsessed with 180g - Merged Thread

Postby Zaimejs » 21 May 2012 16:12

NOpe...

http://www2.norahjones.com/discography

9 songs... about 3 minutes each. 30+ minutes on 4 sides.

I didn't find the download card either :(
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Re: Why are people obsessed with 180g - Merged Thread

Postby Audio_Man » 21 May 2012 18:48

Simple reason for 4 sides is the grooves can be less crammed for better sound quality. Usualy this is done because modern albums made for CD are longer resulting in it being impossible to fit on a single LP without compromising quality. Strangely the Norah Jones' LP has 12 tracks of only 40+ minutes so it could have fitted on a single LP.
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Re: Why are people obsessed with 180g - Merged Thread

Postby kelvinMunson » 21 May 2012 18:54

Audio_Man wrote:Simple reason for 4 sides is the grooves can be less crammed for better sound quality. Usualy this is done because modern albums made for CD are longer resulting in it being impossible to fit on a single LP without compromising quality.



That method is clearly understood, but doesn't apply in the case of Norah, since 7.5 minutes a side is a bit of an overkill ! :shock:
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Re: Why are people obsessed with 180g - Merged Thread

Postby Audio_Man » 21 May 2012 19:09

kelvinMunson wrote:
Audio_Man wrote:Simple reason for 4 sides is the grooves can be less crammed for better sound quality. Usualy this is done because modern albums made for CD are longer resulting in it being impossible to fit on a single LP without compromising quality.



That method is clearly understood, but doesn't apply in the case of Norah, since 7.5 minutes a side is a bit of an overkill ! :shock:


I did say it's a bit strange - It's actualy 10 mins per side. Zamejs has got his tracks/times wrong.
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