Technics SL-1200MK4 Vs. Denon DP-500M Vs. Kenwood KP-9010?

[Audio Maniac]

Hi there!

I'm a newbie as regards turntables and would like to know your recommendation for a second hand turntable.

I started enjoying turntables last year when I listened a quite inexpensive set formed by Philips GA-312 + Nagaoka MP11 shinning on a Audio presentation. Right after it, I purchased two TTs, a Philips GA-202 and Philips GA-312.

Now I'm getting more serious about vinyl players and thinking of purchasing another turntable. What I have in mind is one the following models:

- Denon DP-500M ($550)
- Denon DP-47F ($200)
- Kenwood KP-9010 ($ 790)
- Technics SL-1200MK4 ($890)
- Denon DP-67L ($ 625)
- Thorens TD320 + TP90 tonearm ($ 625)
- Thorens TD105 ($500)

I'm thinking of getting the Thorens TD105 because it's easier to get. All the remaining models are in Japan, so I'll have to spend money on shipping (about $ 150). However, I'm in doubt if it's better than my current turntables.

[Audio Maniac]

Can't anybody give me an advice?

[jimboyep]

The DP-500M was phased out to introduce a newer more expensive Denon... I had this TT and thought the tonearm was subpar and the unit itself to be nothing great... A weak attempt to return to their glory years of the early 80's or so.

Alot of people hold the Technics in high regard but I believe you can find another version of this on ebay for less.

If I were choosing, I like the Denon DP-67L. I had the -62 and -55 and both really performed beautifully for me beyond 25 years. So my experience with these earlier Denon models was excellent.

You will get alot of different answers here as there are many opinions. I would at least avoid the Kenwood and the DP-500M. I think Kenwood's build quality is typically below that of their competition.

[goatbreath]

The Kenwood KP9010 was available only in Japan,,it comes with a silver wired tonearm as standard...I have the model below it and believe me it is better built than a Technics SL1200...It doesn't have quite the torque,,but even the KD7010 was a high end model,,the top model available in Europe..

Also Kenwood made the LO-7D,,Kenwood Substandard ??

[jimboyep]

My experience with Kenwood was not as good as yours and I have not seen this particular model so my opinion here is not as credible as probably your own.

I've listened to the Technics and never quite understood what all the fuss was about... Perhaps my hearing has diminished.

[goatbreath]

Maybe I have been lucky with my Kenwood..I didn't want to comment on this thread because there is an Sl1200 on here which causes division..Also belt against direct drive..I got my Kenwood very cheaply but it is a higher end model..I am listening to it right now..My Linn Sondek is sitting beside it Idle..Both sound great and different from each other,,but the Kenwood is much more neutral..I am shocked at how good the arm is too,,although on the higher side of medium mass..I used to look down my nose at arms with removable head shell's a bit..

I don't have any experience with Denon turntables so I'm not qualified to comment either.. I'm also not saying all Kenwood turntables are good,,I imagine there is some real duffers,,but when I saw the word and letters KP9010,,I started to drool..

From what I remember the TD 105 was a budget model Thorens..I am experienced with The TD 160 and 150 but not the 320..I love Thorens turntables but the motor can get bent in the mail..

You are right about the price of the Sl1200,,now they aren't made any more..The chancer's have came out of the woodwork trying to sell them for inflated prices..

I would love to hear one of the higher up Denon Direct Drives at some point...I am still shocked at how good the Kenwood is..But for the price I imagine they were originally it should be..

[jimboyep]

Well one thing is for sure... you cannot beat a great price on a turntable you love...

I moved away from the Denon's though... Have always been a Sansui guy (depending on the model) but I could not resist those UFO Denon tables from the 80's. If I ever come across that kenwood model/s that were talked about, I will have to check it out.

[Dimal]

If I were choosing, I like the Denon DP-67L. I had the -62 and -55 and both really performed beautifully for me beyond 25 years. So my experience with these earlier Denon models was excellent.

This would be my preference too, except that I wouldn't necessarily knock out the DP-47F if it's in good nick - These also hark back to the glory days of Denon's excellent TTs...

I have no experience with the others in your list....

Mal.

[KentT]

The Technics SL 1200 Mk 4 is a Japan only model which has the improved tonearm wiring and 78 speed added. So it is more hi-fi oriented, if you wanted one cheaper you could get a Mk II and play on.

[MR F]

That Kenwood was their top of the line after the L-07D. I would definitely pick that one above all others listed.

Check out the guts



Wild stuff. Their coreless, slotless motors were some of the most advanced DD designs conceived.

[Black Stuart]

Goatbreath,
I started with a KD990, which is identical to the 9010 but was made earlier. It was dropped in transit from Germany - front right plinth corner smashed as well as the lid hinges. It had not been well looked after, that was obvious. I re-negotiated a lower price with the seller, so paid £120 - certainly the best buy I ever made in hi-fi - it worked perfectly from the get-go. When a cap on the PCB went O/C and took out a few transistors, I bought a KD9010 and shall get the 990 fixed and run it plinthless.

I look at all the problems of arm set-up that so many have which just dont exist with the Kenwood. The excellant gimbal arm could'nt be easier to set-up - designed to be that way by Kenwood's engineers and yes - way ahead with the use of solid core silver tonearm wire.

And who would want to go back to total manual function when you can have end of side arm lift and motor turn-off with absolutely no audible effect.

The audio press in both Europe and the USA slagged off the Japanese 'superdecks' at the behest of their European/USA advertisers - the truth was that neither could compete with the engineering excellance of the Japanese.

The supplied adjustable feet were again way ahead - they are made using alternate layers of hard and then softer rubber/plastic material, completely different from Sorbethane or similar material.

Many do not like the rotational precision, lack of rumble or other noise that they have become used to over the years, that they consider normal - idlers/Sondeck - a quality d/d should be silent in operation.

If the OP can find a KD series deck (not the 500) - go for it, I doubt you would want to change it for any other type.

[Hepokatti]

This comment is slightly provocative, but I hope no one takes offense.

If you gonna play records with a budget, then sooner or later you will end up having SL-1200(mk2 pref.).

I just listened it again two days ago when my friend managed to find one really cheap, and again, I was blown away. The price/quality ratio is just sick! I'm not saying other tables are bad, but I don't think I'm gonna look for anything else for my next table.

The pitch/speed is spot on, acoustics are dead, you can modify the table quite a bit..

The price of 890$ is a bit high, so I'm gonna go and recommend to find mk2 cheaper as well.

Happy hunting & good luck with whatever your choice will be !

[goatbreath]

Hi Stuart..

What's more,,I got mine for a measley £10...I thought it looked good took it home,,experimented a little with headshells and cartridges..I still can't believe the bargain I got..The guy told me firmly that he wanted £30 for the Dansette style record players,,a touch aggressively too,,when I inquired he said,,ten pounds,,I said fair enough..The lid is a mess,,but I just use it to keep dust off anyway..

The Sondek lays silent beside it most of the time,,Nice deck,,but the Kenwood kills it stone dead as soon as a piano appears..Both are different,,but the one without colouration is the KD7010..The arm can track really demanding classical records etc..

There was very little interest when I put up my find.. ..It sure as Hell isn't moving from my house..HaHa..It sounds great with different cartridges and headshells too..Mine came with a plasticky headshell..I have a Sumiko,,ADC and cheaper Altai headshell for it now and I extremely happy with it..Although I am addicted to turntables so won't sell my Sondek for that reason..

I'm quite lucky,,I have a few turntables..I have owned a few other classics too..The Kenwood is by far the most accurate..








beside the Sondek..

[jlbruyelle]

Hi Audio Maniac, as goatbreath said the TD105 was the very bottom of the thorens line, all-plastic design intended to match the low prices of mass-produced Japanese turntables. $500 is way overpriced (we are talking USD, right?), with this kind of money you can easily get a TD126 or a TD125 which are the other end of the range (at least you can in Europe) so I would definitely pass on it. The TD320 is a much better performer, although I still find $625 overpriced (for Europe at least). I don't know the Denons or Kenwoods, so I can't comment on them.

The Technics is a keeper if well cared, but many have been beaten to death by DJ use, so don't buy one unless you can seriously try it first. And I second the other comments, $890 would only be justified for a really minty unit, complete with a good cartridge and a new stylus.

One more thing: a 2nd hand turntables can come with any kind of cartridge, and a stylus in any shape. This may make a difference in the buying decision, and in the price (just compare the prices of a Stanton 500 and of a Shure V15 III which are often encountered on the same decks, you'll understand what I mean). Also, take into consideration the fact that shipping a turntable is always risky: prefer one that you can pick up locally.