Stacking Speakers

[axelsrd]

I think this may be my first post. I have lurked but now I need advice. I have read about people who have stacked speakers (4 of the same speaker, one on top of the other), two sets of two. Just wanted to make it somewhat clear. What is the purpose of stacking and could I stack Pioneer HPM 40's/60's? If I did this, I would be running them through a Sansui AU-719 Integrated. What advantage do I gain by stacking?
If there is no real value added, then my dilema becomes what speakers to match to the Sansui. I have AR 11's and KLH Model 6 s and neither sound excellent. they sound good but I need a 3 way me thinks. Hell, I don't know what I need. I just know that I am not getting the full range that I am looking for. Maybe go new and get away from vintage. Ugggggggh. I don't think my lovely bride will understand another set of speakers, or turntable, or receiver/amp. Soooo, if I get another set of speakers, I am going to have to get rid of a Marantz 2230/ 2270, Rotel RX 1050, the AR 11's and the KLH's, and I also have a pair of Klipsch RB 35 that may have to go as well. What's a guy to do?

Thanks in advance
Randy

[JoeE SP9]

Why not find one really good pair of speakers and be done with it. Your significant other would probably be happier also.

IME having multiple pairs of speakers is usually because none of them sound that good to the owner. One good pair is all one really needs.

How good a given speaker sounds is not related to it being a two way, three way or any way. There are excellent two way and excellent three way speakers.

Concern yourself with how a speaker sounds, not with how many speakers are in the box.

[axelsrd]

You are absolutely right regarding finding the right speaker and being done with it. That is what I am trying to do. I just thought I would get some feed back on the stacking option. I have two AR's, I have two KLH's. I'm going to have to buy speakers regardless, so I was trying to determine if I need to buy two more AR's, or buy two more KLH's or a pair of something and call it quit's. and I am thinking that I need to find, and herein lies my dilema. Find a pair of speakers that work great with the Sansui AU-719, or the Marantz 2230, or the Marantz 2270, or the Rotel RX-1050. As far as my 2 channel system goes, I want to keep one set up and get rid of the rest. I have grown tired of experimenting with different setups.

Thanks for listening.
Randy

[pivot]

Stacking was one of those things that worked surprisingly well with older Advents and perhaps a few random other particular speakers.

It is not a panacea for all speakers that one may have grown tired of.

With the old Advents it gave a "more amd bigger" sound to speakers that already sounded very good. Advents did not image particulary well and stacking did not improve that aspect.

If you have access to another pair of speakers that match a pair you have, try it and see. Sometimes magic happens.....but mostly not.

As others suggest might be time to start listening to different speakers to see what you may like.

[Alec124c41]

Even if they don't match, it costs you nothing to stack what you have.
Try it. You might like it.

Cheers,
Alec

[JoeE SP9]

Regardless of what you do, I urge you to visit one or more B&M stores (or fellow audiophiles) and listen to some good speakers within your budget and above it. Otherwise you have no knowledge of what kind of "good" sound is available. Having a target to aim at sound wise is a good idea.

An informed buyer has tendencycy to buy a pair speakers they are satisfied with. An uninformed buyer tends to end up with multiple pairs of speakers, none of which they're satisfied with.

[treitz3]

Hello, Randy. Stacking speakers may work well when you first put them up, depending on how well the speakers match and it may well sound good to you at first. The issue becomes when you discover what lobing is and this is a detriment to the overall imaging and sound stage. Their is absolutely no way to get rid of lobing with the use of two speakers, stacked as mains no matter how hard you try.

You must go down to one speaker to avoid this. My advice would be to start saving and start shopping. The best thing to do is to shop as long and a steadfast as you can until you find the speaker set that soothes your audio desire. Listen to as many sets of speakers as you can get your ears on, so that you can make an educated decision you will be happy with for the long term. Keep in mind that when you hear "the" speaker that rocks your world, do not buy it right then and there. Go back and compare it to some of the other top contenders and then go back to it. If your observations remain the same, then you have found what you can work with to start the next chapter along your own audio journey.

Good luck and happy listening.

[duficity]

If you stack, I hope you realize that the top speaker is mounted upside down, so the tweeters of both speakers are closer to each other, and the woofers are top and bottom. That was you get a quasi D'appolito (sp?) effect.

[jackfish]

Their is absolutely no way to get rid of lobing with the use of two speakers, stacked as mains no matter how hard you try.

This is not necessarily true. While those effects (lobing, comb filtering, other phase issues) are certainly evident in the near field, there can be a narrow sweet spot where they are not, and they tend to dissapate over longer distances as well. I had a stacked double New Large Advent setup which was fantastic sitting in about a three foot across area about 7 feet in front of the speakers arranged ala Cardas in a 11.5' x 15.75' room with corner bass traps and first reflection point absorption.

[treitz3]

Hello, jackfish. While you have the best case scenario [flipping the second speaker upside down and having a matched set of speakers], the images are still skewed and lobing is still apparent and audible. For some listeners, this is acceptable and in some cases I have experienced, preferred. That said, once I learned what lobing was and how it affected the sound stage and imaging, I determined it was not for me. The issue was solved by going down to one set of mains. I guess it all depends where we are at along our audio journey.

It is my wish not to challenge anyone's POV, I was just offering my own experience to the OP. Perhaps my bar for precise imaging and sound stage locational cues are set too high.

Tom

[jake]

Agree with Alec, stacking is a fun tweek , you can easily undo it, probably a permanent solution to very few situations.

[jackfish]

Hello, jackfish. While you have the best case scenario [flipping the second speaker upside down and having a matched set of speakers], the images are still skewed and lobing is still apparent and audible. For some listeners, this is acceptable and in some cases I have experienced, preferred. That said, once I learned what lobing was and how it affected the sound stage and imaging, I determined it was not for me. The issue was solved by going down to one set of mains. I guess it all depends where we are at along our audio journey.

It is my wish not to challenge anyone's POV, I was just offering my own experience to the OP. Perhaps my bar for precise imaging and sound stage locational cues are set too high.

Tom

Sorry, but lobing, comb filtering or phase issues are not apparent, audible, or even measured for that matter, in a discreet listening position. If one can accept being restricted to that "sweetspot" while listening, the imaging and soundstage are excellent. In a large room, once one is beyond the nearfield, these phase effects are also less apparent. This is of course my experience with only the setup previously described and depicted.

[treitz3]

This will be my final comment on this thread for all due respect to the OP. There are no measurements for the perceived image and it is this perceived image that I specifically am referring too. It is all subjective and my advice would be for him to start looking for one set of mains. YMMV. To the OP, good luck and happy listening in whatever it is you decide. Welcome to the forum, BTW.

That said, Jackfish, let's just agree to disagree.

Tom

[jackfish]

Ah, but there are measurements which reveal the condition of concern. If there is no measured lobing/comb filtering/phase issues at a certain listening location, then the negative effects on imaging and soundstage should be non-existent. Again, you said there are negative affects on imaging and soundstage due to lobing. If there is no lobing at a given listening location then it follows that there is no effect on imaging and soundstage. I agree that there is no way to get rid of some degree of lobing with stacked speakers. However, that does not mean that lobing is necessarily evident in all listening positions. On your main contention I will agree to disagree. Thanks.