Audio Technica AT LP120 or Pioneer PL 514

[Syd7890]

Hi
I'm looking at getting into the world of vinyl and I'm looking for some advice. Which would be a better purchase? A new Audio Technica at-lp 120 with the at-95E cartridge and a built in phono. Or go the used routewith a Pioneer sl-514 with a new Gemini HDCN-15, and a new belt.
The Audio Technica would cost me about $300 in Canada. The guy selling the Pioneer is asking $165. However I would still need to get some type of phono for the Pioneer...my receiver doesn't have one.

Your guys insight would be greatly appreciated.

[goatbreath]

If the PL514 is working OK I would say it's a much better deck than the AT..The At 95e cartridge would work well on the arm though and I'm sure you could get a decent phono stage for not too high a price...I live in the UK so I will leave that to someone else to answer...As far as I know the new AT turntable is cheap plastic..I wouldn't let that near my vinyl..

[cafe latte]

How can i put this?? An audio Technica AT LP120... Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please dont
Regards
CL

[Syd7890]

LOL.
It looks like the Auto Technica isn't such a popular choice, so far. I thought that it was suppose to be a fairly respected unit...it looks like I might be wrong about that one. Thanks for letting me know.
That being said, is the new Gemini HDCN-15 that's on the Pioneer unit any good?

[13oots2]

That being said, is the new Gemini HDCN-15 that's on the Pioneer unit any good?

Looks like a very cheap headshell cartridge combination, that said it is an Audio Technica cartridge but even that is doing the quality limbo dance, how low can you go!

[thommo_work]

I have a slightly different opinion of the PL120, in that I found it very good to live with. The spec. numbers that are annoying people never translated into audible issues for me, anyway.

But - I did not live with it stock.

A new mat & good cart are a definite must to make it give of its best, and the built in phono is not great.

Look at it this way: some people don't like it, and the one who does is saying that a new cart & phono stage are pretty much de rigeur for it any way.

If the Pioneer works as advertised, and you spend the difference between the AT's & the Pioneer's prices on a cart & phono for the Pioneer, you will probably end up with a better source than the stock AT.

[cafe latte]

The problems with the LP120 are not small. The built in phono stage is garbage, the wow and flutter is 0.2% which is very audable were most average turntables are around the 0.2% so we are talking 10 times higher and the audio technica is meant to be quartz locked! The way the LP 120 workes is to adjust the speed every rotation rather than when needed like in direct drives like the Technics so what you get is a pulsing or cogging. The rumble figures are rather high too and if you strip one down most of its weight is not due to good build quality it is due to a useless lump of metal in the base which can only be there to decieve.
In you position I would be looking to buy used, maybe a used project debut or something vintage (Alec is you man for budget turntable advice).
Regards
CL

[Syd7890]

I really appreciate your guys advice.
It sounds like the Audio Technica is a bad idea. Is the Pioneer that I'm looking at a good table, provided that I also invest in a good Phono Pre-amp? Is the asking price fair, or too high? I'm basically looking for my "Best Buy" for under $300, be it new or used. What other brands should I consider?

[thommo_work]

Well, for my view, it's not a BAD idea, but I don't think in your case it's the best idea - the Pioneer looks like a very nice unit, tbh.

CL, I can only tell you how it went when I lived with the tt for nearly 2 years. No audible wow or flutter at any time - I'm not making that up. The sound was (and is) very good. I still have one in the communal living area for parties etc.

Yes, there was some rumble, but way less than the Project I had immediately before, and after putting a heavy Technics mat on, it was way less again. I'd never ever recommend a lower end Debut after my experience with it. The AT was a huge leap up from the Debut 1 that I had.

Still, purely on economics, I have to agree that the Pioneer (assuming there are no major problems with it) will be the better bet in this situation.

[cafe latte]

Well, for my view, it's not a BAD idea, but I don't think in your case it's the best idea - the Pioneer looks like a very nice unit, tbh.

CL, I can only tell you how it went when I lived with the tt for nearly 2 years. No audible wow or flutter at any time - I'm not making that up. The sound was (and is) very good. I still have one in the communal living area for parties etc.

Yes, there was some rumble, but way less than the Project I had immediately before, and after putting a heavy Technics mat on, it was way less again. I'd never ever recommend a lower end Debut after my experience with it. The AT was a huge leap up from the Debut 1 that I had.

Still, purely on economics, I have to agree that the Pioneer (assuming there are no major problems with it) will be the better bet in this situation.

I dont like putting down anyones TT, but 0.2% wow and flutter to me is audable and the AT will cog due to its design and that is audable too not to mention the rumble. I am not a fan of Project really, but in this price band they do shine and the debut is a far better TT then the AT in so many ways. My opinion and many others here is the AT is a deeply flawed table and if you buy used there are so many better options.
No offense meant to your table just trying to be helpful to the op
Regards
CL

[thommo_work]

As I say, it simply wasn't audible. Not when compared to other tables sitting right next to it.

The Debut sounded horrendous next to it, but that was the overall sound, not speed stability - neither sounded particularly off speed at all.

Having lived with it for so long, and having had a few side by sides with other tt's to compare, I stand by my opinion.

My Tecnodec/Nima now comfortably sees it off, but no, at the price level it is simply not as bad as you think.

[cafe latte]

As I say, it simply wasn't audible. Not when compared to other tables sitting right next to it.

The Debut sounded horrendous next to it, but that was the overall sound, not speed stability - neither sounded particularly off speed at all.

Having lived with it for so long, and having had a few side by sides with other tt's to compare, I stand by my opinion.

My Tecnodec/Nima now comfortably sees it off, but no, at the price level it is simply not as bad as you think.

I am glad you are happy with your turntable, maybe I should have said I can hear 0.2% wow and flutter not just that is audable. Maybe your debut has a problem, if what you are saying is true which I have no doubt it must be broken either that or it is the cart or it needs a stylus. What cart have you on the Debut? The Project has a far better arm and much lower wow and flutter, lower rumble and is more speed stable by far. I am not a massive fan of budget turntables, but the Project is the far far far better turntable of the two.
ALL AT120s exibit at least 0.2% wow and flutter due to the way the speed is regulated and most if not all AT120s run slightly slow too. There was a thread here on VE a while back and AT are refusing to accept there is an issue and there is no way to adjust the speed up either. The 0.2% wow and flutter which I asure you is audable and not something I could put up with not to mention the cogging effects not helped by the very light platter. Try it with some classical piano and you should here what I am on about, long notes drifting.
Really no offense at all is meant
Regards
CL

[Syd7890]

It seems like a lot of the reservations about the AT 120 is related to the direct drive motor. That being said, would it be a wiser choice to consider the cheaper AT 60 model that is belt driven, and spend the money
saved on a better cartridge and phono pre-amp? Or does the 60 have problems of it's own?

[cafe latte]

It seems like a lot of the reservations about the AT 120 is related to the direct drive motor. That being said, would it be a wiser choice to consider the cheaper AT 60 model that is belt driven, and spend the money
saved on a better cartridge and phono pre-amp? Or does the 60 have problems of it's own?

The 60 is just as bad. There is nothing wrong with direct drive motors it is just the way that AT and some other cheap usb turntables work that is the problem. What is you maximum budget for a new or used turntable?
Regards
CL