LP12 or Rega RP6

[steve195527]

The LP12 suspension design is deeply flawed. The small subchassis sits on top of conical springs and is therefore highly unstable in the lateral plane which is a sonic disaster. The only way to reduce this instability is to adjust the rotation and tension of the springs to ensure the movement of the subchassis is mostly vertical and this is the dark art which is often left to 'professionals'

Setting up isn't that difficult to do!Deeply flawed, a sonic disaster?I take it from that you're one of the "anti Linn brigade?

Sonic disaster when not set up properly - yes as even 'Linnies' will agree.
Not everyone has the patience or the skill to tackle this so this deck is not for everyone. Yes I am one of the anti Linn brigade in as much as I was brought up in an era of UK hi-fi where the only advice offered by much of the press to obtain better LP fidelity was to buy an LP12 and obvious flaws in pitch stability and frequency colorations were simply ignored.

No turntable is perfect or we would all use the same one(cost no object!)but I do love the two schools:-the ones like you who just criticise for sake of it and the other school where Linn can do no wrong,both are wrong and both very vocal in being wrong!
You obviously read the wrong mags during that era and have allowed them to colour your judgement far more than the LP12 ever coloured the sound!
The pitch stability of the Linn has always been pretty good to be honest,that's a virtue of the flywheel effect of the pretty heavy platter and no servo/feedback loop trying to control speed,if you want to criticise a product at least criticise factually not using hearsay:-the main thing a LP12 can be criticised on is cost,its far to dear

[steve195527]

I certainly didnt mean to imply that setting up a Lp12 was rocket science. I have set up plenty of Oracle Delphis over the years, and always laugh when I read about how hard they are to set up, especially the Mark 1 and 2. But it does take patience and thought, something many new to vinyl arent willing to put up with. So the Rega is simple, repeatable and stays balanced over time.
Like so many things in this hobby, you can buy plug and play, or tweak to your heart's content. I am somewhere in the middle.
And lets not get started on tweaking VTA for every record.

Or resetting the suspension for every record:-they all weigh slightly different lol

[Hepokatti]

steve, I don't think anyone's saying LP12 sounds bad. After all, that table should be capable of (almost) reference quality sound.

That being said, 500$ for a Sondek without PSU smells badly. This is the main point here. We haven't seen or heard that unit so we only know the price, and based on that, it doesn't look good. People are pretty aware of turntable prices these days.

The buyer needs to listen the two tables, and decide purely based on his listening experiences imo.

[steve195527]

steve, I don't think anyone's saying LP12 sounds bad. After all, that table should be capable of (almost) reference quality sound.

That being said, 500$ for a Sondek without PSU smells badly. This is the main point here. We haven't seen or heard that unit so we only know the price, and based on that, it doesn't look good. People are pretty aware of turntable prices these days.

The buyer needs to listen the two tables, and decide purely based on his listening experiences imo.

Please read tracksides posts!
problem is he will or dealer will have to get a power supply for him to be able to audition the LP12

[Trackside]

I'm not criticising Linn for the sake of it - it's a flawed design, has very expensive upgrades in order to tackle the original design flaws and it needs expert ( DIY or pro) setup to perform optimaly. It does sound very nice when sorted but for the same or less money there are decks which offer better pitch stability, a more neutral and less colored frequency response and which play well out of the box without the need to tinker and adjust.

[Hepokatti]

Please read tracksides posts!
problem is he will or dealer will have to get a power supply for him to be able to audition the LP12

Huh? Did I misunderstand something?

I'll quote myself:

That being said, 500$ for a Sondek without PSU smells badly.

I'm aware of the missing power unit. But if there is no audition, at least for me it means no purchase. What kind of a person buys expensive hi-fi without listening first? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of hi-fi? I don't have that kind of money lying around so I could spend 500$ on random junk to see if it can be of any value. If some people have, then good for them.

A very basic NEW LP12 costs here 4.000$. That's with a Pro-ject arm and Linn's own MM cartridge. Maybe this will put my point about the price into some perspective.

Sorry for offtopic. Seems like the buyer has made his decision already too.

Peace & have a nice weekend,
Hepokatti

[steve195527]

Please read tracksides posts!
problem is he will or dealer will have to get a power supply for him to be able to audition the LP12

Huh? Did I misunderstand something?

I'll quote myself:

That being said, 500$ for a Sondek without PSU smells badly.

I'm aware of the missing power unit. But if there is no audition, at least for me it means no purchase. What kind of a person buys expensive hi-fi without listening first? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of hi-fi? I don't have that kind of money lying around so I could spend 500$ on random junk to see if it can be of any value. If some people have, then good for them.

A very basic NEW LP12 costs here 4.000$. That's with a Pro-ject arm and Linn's own MM cartridge. Maybe this will put my point about the price into some perspective.

Sorry for offtopic. Seems like the buyer has made his decision already too.

Peace & have a nice weekend,
Hepokatti

yes you misunderstood something,you posted saying nobody had bad mouthed the Linn,I felt Trackside had and then you advised OP to audition them both,in the current state he can't,and what does the retail price have to do with anything?Condition is what matters,just been to a friends place who has a boxed unused(never even unpacked!) TD124 which he picked up for peanuts,would you have told him not to buy as it was too cheap/smelled fishy?

[ferrari458spider]

Used old Linn, no dealer... run don't walk.

It really isn't like buying a Ferrari with no service history,there isn't that much to go wrong despite what folk on the net say!(or even Linn dealers:-but they are after your cash!)

I have two early LP12 - Serial numbers 0108 ( 1973 ) and 12221, both fitted with SME3009 S2 Improved detachable headshell arms and Shure V15v xMR cartridges - neither has given a moments problem - I have changed the suspension springs on one as after almost 40 years I reckoned it deserved it.

Buy an early LP12 and you can't go wrong - there is hardly anything to go wrong - they're bomb-proof and still THE nbest turntable in the World.

[chris metcalfe]

I've had a few LP12s over the years and all have been nice to listen to - except one - the one which had the most £££ spent on it and the most set-up! Sold it and ended up with a P7.

I've heard the new RP6 at home and at a dealers, and it's very detailed, smooth and eaasy to listen to. The new TTPSU gets the pace and timing spot-on, something you can't say about an LP12 unless you have the best power supplies. For £799 (UK) the RP6 is a bargain.

[kalypso]

For £799 (UK) the RP6 is a bargain.

I wonder why prices are so much different from country to country. Here in germany they charge € 1300,00 = £ 1048,00 for an RP6.

regards kalypso

[youngdand]

Agreed, and why buy an LP12 when you can have an ariston for a fraction of the price!