New to turntables: Sound is congested

[pyrocyborg]

Hi there!

I'm new here, as you can easily see, and I'm also new to LP. My mother had a small but nice collection, but they were stored without any concerns for over 20 years. They were in a bag, but they were pilled one over another... as a result, the very first album I wanted to hear on LP, Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon, is sighly warped, making it unusable.

Anyways, the same goes for the Turntable itself, a Pioneer PL-570 (the craptastic one from the 80s): stored in a dusty environment but with a new cheap cartridge (Audio Technica AT92-CD, I think).

As I do not have any phono input on my NAD 326 BEE (which powers a pair of Polk LSi7), I had to rely on my mother's old cheap plastic receiver, a Pioneer SX-1100, also from the 80s, to do this job.

My mother's records didn't have a lot of mudge or visible dust. A few finger prints here and there (probably me or my brother/sister, when we were young), but nothing critical in term of scratch.

So after cleaning using distilled water and soap, I could say that it was a little bit better, but nothing charming on "higher" passages (i.e. when the sound volume goes up a bit, or when a lot of instruments are in): as these passages, it sound congested, with a lot of distorsion.

I know there will almost always be crackles and pop, but they are minimal and quite charming. What I do not like is the fact that it sounds like a 100$ boombox, even if my system perform, in my opinion, quite well with FLAC files via my Musical Fidelity V-DAC.

Could my mother's receiver, which I use as a phono pre-amp, be the problem here? If I remember well, my mother could not use it as it was only producing distorsion at lower volumes (dust in the volume slider maybe). Could it be oxyded and therefore, creating this mess? Or is the turntable a cheap one unable to really carry a signal correctly? Or, is it because the turntable sat in here for around 20 years (or more)?

Thanks a lot for your help!

[Alec124c41]

What output on the SX-1100 are you using to feed the NAD?

Cheers,
Alec

[Zebbo]

Sounds to me like a combination of all the issues listed; budget TT, budget phono/possibly faulty & dirty records. When you say you cleaned them with soap what exactly did you use and how much?

[Dismord]

The nastiest possible explanation is a that the cartridge those records were originally played on was damaged or improperly setup and has gouged all the higher level portions of those LP's.

[pyrocyborg]

Hi! I'm using the phono input on the SX-1100, and there is only one output: record tape out. Would that output be already limited in term of signal and be the source of this lack of "quality" during higher passages (kinda like a tape)?

As for the rest, my mother told me she probably didn't use her records much with that particular table, maybe once. But maybe those particular records are indeed damaged; I just tried one that was stored with them, but probably never played much (he was in pristine condition compared to the others), and it's playing fine without these problems. However, this isn't an album which could be qualified as having any "higher passage"...

As for the cleaning itself, I used a few drops of mild dishwashing soap in distilled water and "cleaned" them following the groves with a lint free cloth. Maybe the dust is deep inside the grooves, and if it's the case, I do not know if I only pushed it back further. Maybe they would need to go in a disk wasshing machine to perform well...

[Dismord]

I've never encountered an LP without higher passages . Maybe there's some confusion here. By higher passages I meant sections of the music the are noticeably louder and more complex than others.
Sadly though it's very difficult to tell at a distance what is going on here. I suggest you take one of the worst LP's and play it on someone else's system and tell us what you hear.

[pyrocyborg]

Thanks Dismord. These passages where the music should be complex and louder, but still reproduced, won't be on my turntable, even if the same song on CD will.

I think that my best bet is to try it at the audio's shop on their turntable, if they want to.

[Dismord]

Thanks Dismord. These passages where the music should be complex and louder, but still reproduced, won't be on my turntable, even if the same song on CD will.

I think that my best bet is to try it at the audio's shop on their turntable, if they want to.

Good luck. A lot of audio retailers are downright snobs.

[pyrocyborg]

Yeah, I know that... At one shop in particular, the salesman looked at me in a strange way when I told him I had a pair of Polk LSi7 I bought in a clearance sale. Sure, those speakers aren't a pair of 1000$ ones, but it's sure better than almost anything under 350$, which is what I got them for.

Anyways, I'll try it and I hope to be able to listen to vinyl as it's meant to... I may ask my friends on Facebook too, just in case someone have a 400-500$ turntable... which I doubt

[SteveA2]

I was always told stacking records on top of each other was not a good idea, especially for the ones at the bottom.

[Dismord]

I was always told stacking records on top of each other was not a good idea, especially for the ones at the bottom.

It's not the stacking so much as pulling them out from underneath a tall pile that grinds dust and dirt into the surface.

[megatrends]

The nastiest possible explanation is a that the cartridge those records were originally played on was damaged or improperly setup and has gouged all the higher level portions of those LP's.

I am agreeing with this here .... sounds to me like the records have been damaged by a cheap or worn stylus that was previously on it. Most of the general population who bought records and turntables didn't even realize it was important to change a worn stylus as it can severely damage the record grooves.

I have 3 good examples of used records I bought that look great but the grooves are just a mass of distortion. I bought them from the same owner who wanted to get rid of these three records and I worked with him so I bought them. They all did the same thing, I bet the rest of his collection was in the same shape, probably has the same stylus that came with his record player.

I think you hit this one on the head.

[pyrocyborg]

The nastiest possible explanation is a that the cartridge those records were originally played on was damaged or improperly setup and has gouged all the higher level portions of those LP's.

I am agreeing with this here .... sounds to me like the records have been damaged by a cheap or worn stylus that was previously on it. Most of the general population who bought records and turntables didn't even realize it was important to change a worn stylus as it can severely damage the record grooves.

I have 3 good examples of used records I bought that look great but the grooves are just a mass of distortion. I bought them from the same owner who wanted to get rid of these three records and I worked with him so I bought them. They all did the same thing, I bet the rest of his collection was in the same shape, probably has the same stylus that came with his record player.

I think you hit this one on the head.

Possible, as my parents had to change the cartridge, even if they didn't really use the turntable. We were young and we probably just kept on pushing the arm or the cartridge itself, resulting in desastrous calibration which may have caused this mess. Maybe those LPs were damaged way before we were born... Either way, it would be a shame. I'll try to find someone with a working turntable, just in case

[pyrocyborg]

Hi!

My girlfriend was sticked to the idea that "she wanted" a new turntable so we went to a pawnshop, and while I hate to buy something without reading reviews before, she didn't want to come back home without a TT.... so we took the one that sounded best to us between the few that we could listen to. A Kenwood 3070 this is, from 1977 I think.

We also bought a few LPs, Pink Floyd's The Wall, Santana's Abraxas and a few others for a good deal (they sound great, minus one or two passages on the second PF disc).

Anyways, with the plastic cover out of the way, it's way better looking that my mother's one, even if I'm more into modern stuff than vintage.

What stunned me was the lack of distorsion/congestion when the guy changed the cartridge to a JVC one (don't know the model). I was sceptical at first, but it sounded way better than the OEM replacement to my ears. So we took it home, and I must say that I'm satisfied, but not in every way. While every LP sounds good now (no more distorsion during higher passages), I think the crappy 80s amplifier I use as a pre-amp (because my NAD 326 BEE do not have a phono input) might hold everything back.

I mean, I touched some buttons here and there on the amplifier, just for fun, and everything started to sound messy (distorsion and all, probably caused by dust and such things). I then though that after all, it might be a problem too.

Would you recommand me to buy a new phono pre-amp, and if so, is there any good phono pre-amp under let's say, 120$?

Thanks!